Simpson 2-band and Rooney Finest hair source confusion

[drunkentester]

Okay, so I think I need to be set straight by people here that might be more knowledgeable than me on this topic. I'm wondering about the discrepency between the sudden burst of Simpson 2-band hair (in the past 6 months) and the sudden disappearance of Rooney Finest grade brushes. I'm operating under these assumptions:

1. Almost all badger hair from English brush makers are being sourced from China since there is a ban on harvesting European badgers.

2. 2-band hair is a grade of hair, not specifically a different BREED of badger

3. If point 2 is true, shouldn't there always be some source of 2-band or finest hair available whenever a particular badger is harvested? In this case, I'm thinking a sushi analogy where you have regular Tuna and then the high grade Toro (belly parts).

If 2-band finest hair is a "grade" of hair, shouldn't there always be at least a trickle of brushes (albeit low). For example, 1 Rooney Finest brush for every 10-20 Super, best, or pure produced?

Is there something I'm missing here?

I'm just frustrated that Rooney seems to have completely stopped Finest production while I see a bunch of Simpson 2-bands. While I know the hair quality and characteristics are slightly different, shouldn't Rooney be able to source some Finest hair from their specific badger source?

If the hair type is seasonal (such as heavier hairs during Winters vs. Summers), we should still see an uptick of Finest hair at some point....right?

Do people even know from what part of the badger Finest hair comes from?

--Dennis

 

[Stevestan]

I believe I read somewhere that the finest hair comes from the neck area of the badger.

 

[jkh]

I've owned one Rooney Finest and several or the recent Simpson two-band brushes. In my opinion, the hair is very different, which leads me to think it is possible they come from different species? Also, Rooney's source for hair dried up - we know that. That isn't to say there aren't other sources (we know there are since Simpson is making them), but the hair quality or feel might be different. If Rooney wants to maintain the same look and feel of their top of the line product they can't just accept any two band hair.

Just a couple of random thoughts.

 

[whitebar]

Dennis,
You have asked some good questions, I wish I knew the answer.

 

[drunkentester]

I've owned one Rooney Finest and several or the recent Simpson two-band brushes. In my opinion, the hair is very different, which leads me to think it is possible they come from different species? Also, Rooney's source for hair dried up - we know that.
Just a couple of random thoughts.

I have a Rooney 3/1 Finest and recent Simplex 2-band supers, and I agree they feel different.

The part about "Rooney's source for hair dried up" is the perplexing point. If wikipedia or general online information is accurate , there are only 8 species of badgers. Ruling out the European and American badgers (which have been banned from harvesting for awhile), we have 6 breeds.

It's not like badger hair types can suddenly change it's genetic characteristics in such a short span (as in genetic generations)....so are we left to believe that Rooney Finest is actually a completely different breed if the source all of a sudden dried up?

I mean, if Vendor A is harvesting badger breed X neck hair and Vendor B is harvesting badger breed X neck hair, shouldn't the hair characteristics remain the same outside of vendor quality? And if there slight quality issues with vendor B, I would think Rooney can easily course-correct them in terms of knot manufacturing critiques or adjustments like: make the knot denser, use different binder, use different glue, we need tips X shade of white, etc.

This is why I'm questioning why there is a Rooney Finest hair shortage. From all aspects, it just doesn't make too much sense....unless I'm missing some key piece of information.

--Dennis

 

[Left Coast DJ]

Is it possible the Rooney "Finest" hair, along with Simpson's 2-band, aren't from just a specific breed or part of badger's body, but also a manufacturing process such as bleaching, softening, etc.? And the Chinese badger hair exporter or British factory just isn't doing so anymore due to the low ROI? After all, other than the shave geeks on B&B, I can't imagine an average working stiff walking into a shop and dropping $300+ on a shaving brush. Heck, if my wife found out I dropped $100+ on my Ehsan, I'd get served!

 

[drunkentester]

Is it possible the Rooney "Finest" hair, along with Simpson's 2-band, aren't from just a specific breed or part of badger's body, but also a manufacturing process such as bleaching, softening, etc.? And the Chinese badger hair exporter or British factory just isn't doing so anymore due to the low ROI? After all, other than the shave geeks on B&B, I can't imagine an average working stiff walking into a shop and dropping $300+ on a shaving brush. Heck, if my wife found out I dropped $100+ on my Ehsan, I'd get served!

That is a fair point, but I can't see how much more "manufacturing" a Finest brush would need that normal Super grade hair wouldn't, besides maybe bleaching of the tips. I mean, in general, shave brushes are a niche market already. If we're talking subset of a subset with super high-end brushes, I would think their margins should be much higher when it comes to Finest grade brushes. Look at the jump from the same style and size Rooney from a super to finest...it's almost 50%-60% price increase.

--Dennis

 

[SliceOfLife]

I thought I read somewhere that badger hair was collected via Chinese farming villagers rounding up all the badgers in a big hunt on a selected day each year and killing the suckers and selling the hair all at once to distributors.

It was on a website selling badger hair, so maybe it was BS, and they're just farmed like chickens, but that's what I read.

 

[antoine1]

That is a fair point, but I can't see how much more "manufacturing" a Finest brush would need that normal Super grade hair wouldn't, besides maybe bleaching of the tips. I mean, in general, shave brushes are a niche market already. If we're talking subset of a subset with super high-end brushes, I would think their margins should be much higher when it comes to Finest grade brushes. Look at the jump from the same style and size Rooney from a super to finest...it's almost 50%-60% price increase.

--Dennis

Exactly...just think of the demand when this hair type miraculously reappears.

 

[drP]

I think that there's no difference between Rooneys finest and Simpsons two band...they're identical...the only difference lies in the manufacturing process...Rooneys finest f.i. is extremely bleached,even more than the first batch of Simpsons two band from a while ago.
Undoubtedly Lee Sabini has his reasons for the extinction of his finest badger...

 

[Nightbreed]

As a side note, in Norway You can hunt Badger from 21.08 – 31.01, in Sweden from 15.08 - 15.02.
Amund,

 

[huracan]

Badger hair is not exclusively used for shaving brushes, but for many other purposes (painting, makeup, etc), so the world market is much bigger that one would think. Meaning that a "hair" farm is not necessarily a small niche market, speaking in world market terms.

I can see Simpson, Rooney and others having "experts" that search China and maybe other parts of the world (India comes to mind, who knows) for farms that meet their criteria for harvesting, somewhat akin to beer brewers looking for hop and grain growers.

They very well may have their established suppliers, but once in a while could come across some hair that had unique qualities due to a particularly long winter and/or unusual diet of the badgers from which they where harvested; that particular hair is in limited supply, one manufacturer found it, others had no idea.

 

[drunkentester]

Badger hair is not exclusively used for shaving brushes, but for many other purposes (painting, makeup, etc), so the world market is much bigger that one would think. Meaning that a "hair" farm is not necessarily a small niche market, speaking in world market terms.

I can see Simpson, Rooney and others having "experts" that search China and maybe other parts of the world (India comes to mind, who knows) for farms that meet their criteria for harvesting, somewhat akin to beer brewers looking for hop and grain growers.

They very well may have their established suppliers, but once in a while could come across some hair that had unique qualities due to a particularly long winter and/or unusual diet of the badgers from which they where harvested; that particular hair is in limited supply, one manufacturer found it, others had no idea.

Good point, Lou. But it seems like Rooney Finest grade of brushes have been established for awhile, so it wasn't a sudden rare crop find. If the Rooney finest hair is the same as the recent Simpson 2-band, I wonder if it's more of a exclusive deal where Vulfix came in and bought exclusive rights to that farm's Finest grade hair and cut Rooney completely out of the loop to monopolize it. If they did, it's strange that there isn't a price increase to reflect that kind of move (since 2-bands simpsons are currently the same price as a 3-band super).

--Dennis

 

[antoine1]

There really isn't a shortage of 2 band hair which has always been the same price as Simpson Super grade.

 

[Ignatius]

Good point, Lou. But it seems like Rooney Finest grade of brushes have been established for awhile, so it wasn't a sudden rare crop find. If the Rooney finest hair is the same as the recent Simpson 2-band, I wonder if it's more of a exclusive deal where Vulfix came in and bought exclusive rights to that farm's Finest grade hair and cut Rooney completely out of the loop to monopolize it. If they did, it's strange that there isn't a price increase to reflect that kind of move (since 2-bands simpsons are currently the same price as a 3-band super).

--Dennis

Shavemac recently started offering a 2-band grade as well, so the Vulfix monopoly thing seems unlikely.

Now, as for Rooney, speculation about their hair sourcing aside, I do think its a good move on their part to simply discontinue, or at least mothball, that designation of hair grade. Plisson in the past has kept the same name for its Mountain White grade but used a different hair. Guys have bought those brushes and received a totally different brush to what they expected. At least Rooney is being honest about not being able to make those brushes right now.

 

[huntmol]

I talked to Jim at Vintage Blades about this a while back, and he said he doesn't know when, if ever, he'll get another batch of the Rooney Finest. I got the impression from him that it was in fact very rare, expensive, and hard-to-source hair.

I personally have had several Rooney Finest and Simpsons Two-band brushes, and I think they are very different. They both have backbone and soft tips, but in my opinion the Rooney is kicked up several notches above the Simpsons in terms of both backbone and softness of tips. Rooney Finest seriously feels like a metal spring in terms of how much amazing backbone these things have!

 

[whitebar]

Having multiple examples of both Simpsons 2-band (Somerset & Vulfix) as well as multiple examples of Rooney Finest I find myself agreeing with Hunter. While I don't think I can quantifiably describe the differences, I find myself favoring the Rooney Finest. Both marquees are excellent shaving brushes but there is just something magical about the Rooney Finest grade of badger hair. Is is truly a shame that they are no longer being produced but I applaud Rooney for not substituting another hair type just to make a sale.