Short Story Reading Group "The Veldt"

[Claudel Xerxes]

Welcome! Anyone who is interested is free to participate. No sign up list is necessary. The idea of this is that each week or two we will read a selected short story, then have a discussion on whatever we see fit involving the story. The structure of the discussions might change as we go on, but for right now, we'll keep it fairly open. Please, keep in mind that reading the thread comments before you've read the story might give spoilers or influence the way you read the story, so read past this initial post at your own discretion.

There were four or five stories that I was debating on for this session. At first, I thought that something more straightforward than the last reading would be good, but I wanted to keep people's interest, and figured that we can get into some more eerie and sinister readings leading up to Halloween. This story has some disturbing elements to it, so be warned if you prefer stories that are cozy and comfortable.

Let's read and discuss "The Veldt" by Ray Bradbury.

 

[luvmysuper]

Google Docs PDF attached

 

[luvmysuper]

Spoiler

I am a fan of Ray Bradbury, and live very close to his hometown of Waukegan, Illinois of which many of his stories were based in.
Knowing Bradbury as I do, I had an immediate impression of how the story was going to unfold, and what was in store for the reader.
For that reason, I sort of felt as if the plot had been telegraphed long before it finished. I knew exactly what was going to happen, and watched helplessly as the parents continued down a path that I knew would result in their demise.
Regardless, it's a great story and typical of Bradbury in turning what might seem as ordinary rural events into frightening landscapes.
His proposition that the house had become the de facto parents of the children, and had supplanted their affection for their parents onto the house and the nursery in particular.
The pleas of the children to the house to effectively save them from what they perceived as the injustice of the parents deciding to shut down the house infers that they had stopped feeling the emotional bond with their parents and instead focused that affection on an inanimate object.
Likewise, the parents failure to take corrective action in making adjustments as necessary to maintain control, as was their duty, should have resulted in fixing the issue rather than the totalitarian shutdown of everything. This knee jerk reaction sealed their fate. They were responding to their own feeling of loss of control and rather than take action to correct the problem, they simply decided to ban the use of everything, which further alienated their children from them.
I believe that one could imagine that the house was sentient, and was responding to the desires of the children - but one would be mistaken in thinking that the house, and the nursery in particular, was somehow aware and "providing" for the children. It was simply doing as it was programmed to do. The nursery was "The Nursery" and it was programmed to respond to the wishes of the children. If not so, then it would not have been called the nursery - it would have been named any number of other possible names like holodeck, or entertainment room, or imagination room etc.
No, it was called the nursery because it was specifically designed to cater to the imagination of the children, whatever that imagination was. The room held no danger to the children. It provided, no matter how unreasonable, whatever they imagined, even if that imagining was detrimental to others.
This makes me think of the Artificial Intelligence controversy we face in the coming years. The danger being not so much that the "brain" of the house (or AI as we know it) may or will become sentient, but rather that we as humans are likely to fail in our programming safeguards into our creations, and thus allow the artificial intelligence to carry out what IT thinks is the right thing to do, even if that action is ultimately destructive to those who created it.

 

[Claudel Xerxes]

I could gladly talk more about it if anyone desires, but for now, this is the main gist of what I think about the story.

Spoiler

What I find so fascinating about this story is how much I can see many of the elements of it in today's society. The nursery reminds me of smartphones, computers, and video games, and the deeper influence it has on kids than it once did. I don't know how many times I've heard parents use screen time as a crutch from having to find ways to keep kids happy and entertained. Also, the realism of videos and games, and how exposing kids to certain things prematurely can desensitize them to violence or sex, and encourage manipulative (and sometimes nefarious) behavior. I was hanging out with a child psychologist a couple weeks ago, and she was talking about how concerning it is that kids are learning online about how to manipulate their parents and the authorities and threaten with false accusations in order to get their way. They way in which the children in the story retaliate when their parents start to impose restrictions with the nursery reminds me of that.

 

[luvmysuper]

I could gladly talk more about it if anyone desires, but for now, this is the main gist of what I think about the story.

Spoiler

What I find so fascinating about this story is how much I can see many of the elements of it in today's society. The nursery reminds me of smartphones, computers, and video games, and the deeper influence it has on kids than it once did. I don't know how many times I've heard parents use screen time as a crutch from having to find ways to keep kids happy and entertained. Also, the realism of videos and games, and how exposing kids to certain things prematurely can desensitize them to violence or sex, and encourage manipulative (and sometimes nefarious) behavior. I was hanging out with a child psychologist a couple weeks ago, and she was talking about how concerning it is that kids are learning online about how to manipulate their parents and the authorities and threaten with false accusations in order to get their way. They way in which the children in the story retaliate when their parents start to impose restrictions with the nursery reminds me of that.

Exactly! Stated much more eloquently than my attempt with my AI comments.

I do hope we get more participation in these, it's a lot of fun.
I approach these by reading the story as quickly as I can. I find that if I put it off at all, I tend to put it off some more.
I read it, which only takes a few minutes, and then I have time to mull it over before I feel like an answer is "due".
I also wanted to point out to folks that they can jump in at any point, or go back and read previous selected short stories and still join in.

 

[Toothpick]

I just now saw this. I didn't know there was a new one posted. I don't usually browse this forum, I just use New Posts. And if it's not on the 1st page there then I don't see threads. One suggestion (although a lot of work) - keep a running list of those that participated in the threads and tag them when a new thread is posted.

I'll read and post my thoughts in a bit.

 

[luvmysuper]

Is there way to flag attention to new story threads besides tagging everyone?
Tagging is extra work and is subject to errors of omission.
"Hey - I didn't get notified there was a new story"
It also doesn't do anything to attract new participants.
Adding it on to an existing short story thread would be easiest, but comes at the cost of being cumbersome and difficult to sort out what story someone is writing about.

 

[Claudel Xerxes]

Is there way to flag attention to new story threads besides tagging everyone?
Tagging is extra work and is subject to errors of omission.
"Hey - I didn't get notified there was a new story"
It also doesn't do anything to attract new participants.
Adding it on to an existing short story thread would be easiest, but comes at the cost of being cumbersome and difficult to sort out what story someone is writing about.

What I planned on doing was to make a notification post in the interest thread whenever a new story was posted. If we continue, then I'll make a list with links in the first post of the interest thread. I didn't post in the interest thread this time just to see how many people would stumble upon it on their own.

 

[Toothpick]

Is there way to flag attention to new story threads besides tagging everyone?
Tagging is extra work and is subject to errors of omission.
"Hey - I didn't get notified there was a new story"
It also doesn't do anything to attract new participants.
Adding it on to an existing short story thread would be easiest, but comes at the cost of being cumbersome and difficult to sort out what story someone is writing about.

Create a new forum and make it Article format. Or not. But then folks can sub to the entire forum.
Of course folks can sub to the Barbershop forum too.

Besides cross posting in other threads (What you reading) IDK of any other system to draw eyes to specific threads once they are posted.

 

[Toothpick]

We had that ticker tape banner we used for the Auction that one time. But that also requires someone to maintain it.
And could be annoying for members that care nothing for the short story threads.

 

[emwolf]

I've read this a few times over the years. I too see the modern relevancy with social media's impact on the young. But that is nothing new. When I was young I had the Longines Symphonette Golden Age of Radio LP. Jack Benny narrated highlights of radio shows of the 30s and 40s. One thing he commented on was "parents today we're complaining about kids glued to tv. When we were young we played in the fresh air and read more books. But in reality we were tuning in the radio."

there is something almost cyclical about the complaints about kids today. It's an almost universal fear of bequeathing this world to the next generation only to have them mess it up. I do like the AI comment as it's something very akin to the tech in the story and something I can see us surrendering our better judgment to.

 

[abies]

This story was way ahead of its time, very prescient.

I agree that some of the broad outlines of what happened were forseeable, but a lot of what I enjoyed about it (? not sure if that's the right way of putting it) was seeing how that unfolded, how the details were filled in and so forth. There was a bit of whiplash along these lines, in that I sort of anticipated something, then didn't, and then there was the end.

Spoiler

To me, the story presented the kids as maybe the ultimate endpoint or logical conclusion to where the parents and society were headed. There was the dynamic of the machine usurping the parents as role models, but also to me at least also the future of where society was headed.

I'm not sure what to make of the psychologist's fate at the end. Maybe I'm not supposed to read into it but it's got me wondering.

Another good story by Bradbury.

 

[Claudel Xerxes]

Likewise, the parents failure to take corrective action in making adjustments as necessary to maintain control, as was their duty, should have resulted in fixing the issue rather than the totalitarian shutdown of everything. This knee jerk reaction sealed their fate. They were responding to their own feeling of loss of control and rather than take action to correct the problem, they simply decided to ban the use of everything, which further alienated their children from them.

As someone who doesn't have kids, I haven't really contemplated the impact of the abruptness of the parents actions, and the need stop it at all costs. It somewhat reminds me of an addict. Going cold turkey can work for some, but for others, abruptly stopping can result in dangerous withdrawals.

I've read this a few times over the years. I too see the modern relevancy with social media's impact on the young. But that is nothing new. When I was young I had the Longines Symphonette Golden Age of Radio LP. Jack Benny narrated highlights of radio shows of the 30s and 40s. One thing he commented on was "parents today we're complaining about kids glued to tv. When we were young we played in the fresh air and read more books. But in reality we were tuning in the radio."

there is something almost cyclical about the complaints about kids today. It's an almost universal fear of bequeathing this world to the next generation only to have them mess it up. I do like the AI comment as it's something very akin to the tech in the story and something I can see us surrendering our better judgment to.

I somewhat agree with Jack Benny's thoughts on the matter, but there is more and more mounting evidence that kids today are in a different situation that any of the previous generations throughout history. We can now live and function without any real human interaction. We can learn, play, work, get food, etc. all online in complete isolation. Whereas in the past, kids would listen to the radio or watch TV together, and there weren't multiple selections of programs being broadcasted 24/7. One would need to go to the store to get food instead of being able to have everything delivered. And now, contactless delivery is an option for many delivery services. The more people connect to a virtual world, the more disconnected they might become to the real world.

a lot of what I enjoyed about it (? not sure if that's the right way of putting it) was seeing how that unfolded, how the details were filled in and so forth.

Exactly. I've been going through a lot of short stories lately, and sometimes I'll read a synopsis of a short story before I read the story itself. It rarely ruins the story when the author knows how to take the reader for a ride, even if the reader already knows the destination.

 

[luvmysuper]

As someone who doesn't have kids, I haven't really contemplated the impact of the abruptness of the parents actions, and the need stop it at all costs. It somewhat reminds me of an addict. Going cold turkey can work for some, but for others, abruptly stopping can result in dangerous withdrawals.

I believe that the parents decided to shut down the house to make themselves feel better. The interest wasn't for the childrens sake, it was selfish.
They decided to shut down the house to assuage their own feelings of loss of control.
In this matter, the children were confirmed in their belief that the house had more interest in their needs than the parents did.

 

[Claudel Xerxes]

I believe that the parents decided to shut down the house to make themselves feel better. The interest wasn't for the childrens sake, it was selfish.
They decided to shut down the house to assuage their own feelings of loss of control.
In this matter, the children were confirmed in their belief that the house had more interest in their needs than the parents did.

Yes... great point.

 

[Toothpick]

Spoiler

Kinda saw that ending coming from the start of the story. Maybe I'm feeling extra cynical today but that's eerily similar to what I see in society today. Spoiled kids, spoiled adults, automation taking over. BUT...I'd sure like to have a house like that .

 

[emwolf]

I somewhat agree with Jack Benny's thoughts on the matter, but there is more and more mounting evidence that kids today are in a different situation that any of the previous generations throughout history. We can now live and function without any real human interaction. We can learn, play, work, get food, etc. all online in complete isolation. Whereas in the past, kids would listen to the radio or watch TV together, and there weren't multiple selections of programs being broadcasted 24/7. One would need to go to the store to get food instead of being able to have everything delivered. And now, contactless delivery is an option for many delivery services. The more people connect to a virtual world, the more disconnected they might become to the real world.



.

Great point, even stuff that didn't involve the parents on TV were often communal experiences with friends viewing and lots of discussions the next day.

 

[Messygoon]

A few years ago, a good friend turned me on to Rat Bradbury. While far from my favorite of his works, The Veldt comes to mind often. In our day, kids and adults alike become can become so addicted to their smart phones that they can lash out as if in detox when taken away. Great selection, and thank you for letting me revisit this wonderful story.