Sharp enough?!?!

[wdwrx]

Hi guys... I hope someone can help me out...
Here's the back-story:
I'm fairly new to str8 shaving (2 months) and started with Kai blades in a shavette. I acquired a vintage str8 "shave-ready" and tried to shave..... it was not very sharp at all.
So I sent it out to be honed.... When i got it back, it didn't really pass the HHT ( it would cut half way through, but not "pop" it). My honemeister said he took it up to Shapton 30K. The first shave with it recently re-honed was... well... underwhelming. At his advice, I did not strop it for this shave. Second shave: better (after 40 passes linen/20 leather). Third shave.... underwhelming again. It just would not cut the hairs on my chin; this is where my stubble is thickest and coarsest. There was no way those whiskers were coming off with 3 passes... more like 8 or 9.
So I guess I've got two questions... Is this razor actually sharp enough? Or, have SE blades given me an unrealistic concept of what sharp is?
Sure would appreciate any input.....

 

[holli4pirating]

Well, either both people who honed the straight for you did a bad job, or it's you. Given that you are new to using straights and that there is a learning curve, my guess is that it is you.

 

[professorchaos]

Chances are that if you have to ask, it probably isn't.

 

[wdwrx]

Chances are that if you have to ask, it probably isn't.

That was my first thought...but being noob, there is a great deal of uncertainty. I really did expect performance comparable to the Kai I've been using; this was not even close.
Then there is stropping technique, which may be good, more likely poor, though it did help with the second shave. By the third, I may have done the edge in myself, thought I don't think so.

 

[professorchaos]

IIRC, edges didn't last as long when I was learning as they do now. So it is possible yours needs a touch up.

If it pulls when you shave your upper lip wtg then it isn't shave ready in my book.

 

[charismata]

Does the blade have significant hone wear or uneven hone wear?

If the blade geometry is all out of proportion, it can be very difficult, and maybe impossible, to get a keen edge and keep it that way.

Who is the manufacturer of the blade? This sounds typical of poor quality steel blades that I run across. They usually show a lot of uneven hone wear and they just can't maintain a good edge if they will take one at all. I don't know if this is the case with yours. But if it is, you will be able to see a night/day difference with the edge on a good quality, hard steel blade. A good hard steel will get sharp... very sharp.

 

[holli4pirating]

Who honed your razor the first time, and who honed it the second time?

 

[Luc]

I would think that technique is to blame. I had the same thing when I started. I didn't have the razor re-honed and kept using it. After a while, I was able to cut some whiskers...

 

[conteins]

I would think that technique is to blame. I had the same thing when I started. I didn't have the razor re-honed and kept using it. After a while, I was able to cut some whiskers...

same story here. i kept on thinking that it was the blade. even sent it multiple times to a honemeister (lynn). then i found out my angle was wrong. try a shallower angle (spine closer to your skin).

 

[wdwrx]

There are some very good points here. Thanks guys.
Here's my thoughts, I hope I can do justice to your feedback.
Technique: I ain't got none. I'm only 3 shave in, so I'm trying everything. What I mean is that I'm likely to try all kinds of angles from steep to shallow. I seem to be taking an escalating approach. I start with the shallowest angle i can make and still engage the edge. When/if the whiskers don't get cut; I try more angle. If that doesn't work I'll try a slight scything motion. This is where I'm most likely to cut myself.

The blade: Vintage elskituna FB in really nice shape. Not a lot of hone wear, to my untrained eye, looks fairly even and true. Honed by the gentleman who sold it to me. Take that as you will. I have no reason to doubt that he is capable of putting an edge on a razor, nor do I doubt his word at all. But. skill levels vary, whiskers vary, and I simply don't know enough at this point to come to an informed opinion.
I noticed a definate pull and tug sensation the first time I used it. I've stretched out enough m3's to know a dull blade when I feel it and it felt dull.
It was definatley an uncomfortable shave.
I sent it out to a gent reccomended by Scott @ rassage-poulin (forgive my spelling) so I have no reason to doubt his ability. There was a noticable improvement in sharpness, though it seemed a little rough. Stropping for the second shave improved the feeling of smoothness.

In my own defense.... I have gotten pretty good with my Kai blades, BBS smooth (mostly), little blood loss, only a bit of razor burn now and again when I get careless or aggressive.

My dillema: at this point I am surprised at the amount of work involved to remove my whiskers with this vintage razor. But two guys have told me it is shave ready. (nod to Holly4pirating) At no point has it seemed anywhere near as sharp as my Kai blades. Is the difference in technique from one to the other so different? Are str8's even capable of becoming as, or nearly as, sharp as SE blades?

 

[Luc]

There are some very good points here. Thanks guys.
Here's my thoughts, I hope I can do justice to your feedback.
Technique: I ain't got none. I'm only 3 shave in, so I'm trying everything. What I mean is that I'm likely to try all kinds of angles from steep to shallow. I seem to be taking an escalating approach. I start with the shallowest angle i can make and still engage the edge. When/if the whiskers don't get cut; I try more angle. If that doesn't work I'll try a slight scything motion. This is where I'm most likely to cut myself.

The blade: Vintage elskituna FB in really nice shape. Not a lot of hone wear, to my untrained eye, looks fairly even and true. Honed by the gentleman who sold it to me. Take that as you will. I have no reason to doubt that he is capable of putting an edge on a razor, nor do I doubt his word at all. But. skill levels vary, whiskers vary, and I simply don't know enough at this point to come to an informed opinion.
I noticed a definate pull and tug sensation the first time I used it. I've stretched out enough m3's to know a dull blade when I feel it and it felt dull.
It was definatley an uncomfortable shave.
I sent it out to a gent reccomended by Scott @ rassage-poulin (forgive my spelling) so I have no reason to doubt his ability. There was a noticable improvement in sharpness, though it seemed a little rough. Stropping for the second shave improved the feeling of smoothness.

In my own defense.... I have gotten pretty good with my Kai blades, BBS smooth (mostly), little blood loss, only a bit of razor burn now and again when I get careless or aggressive.

My dillema: at this point I am surprised at the amount of work involved to remove my whiskers with this vintage razor. But two guys have told me it is shave ready. (nod to Holly4pirating) At no point has it seemed anywhere near as sharp as my Kai blades. Is the difference in technique from one to the other so different? Are str8's even capable of becoming as, or nearly as, sharp as SE blades?

I would avoid any scything motion at this stage. I'm betting on a cut if you do so.

A straight can be as sharp as DE or SE blades yes. Give this some time, there are no magic formula. Pratice is the key...

 

[mdunn]

pratice is the key...

+16845612318698

 

[pal]

The first shave with it recently re-honed was... well... underwhelming. At his advice, I did not strop it for this shave. Second shave: better (after 40 passes linen/20 leather). ...

It should be the other way around 20-25 on the linen and 40 on the leather.

 

[wdwrx]

It should be the other way around 20-25 on the linen and 40 on the leather.

Copy that. Danm dixlexsai!

Give this some time, there are no magic formula. Pratice is the key...

Wise words my friend, I will do my best to heed them!

 

[wdwrx]

Up-Date for ya 'all!
True to form, I introduced not one, not even two.... but THREE new variables. Result.... fantastic!

First I watched a bunch of other guys shaving....again....(?!?)... and tried to imprint what they were doing in my mind.

Then I stropped like I've never stropped before. I may have not been stropping with enough authority before; I was trying so hard not to noob my edge. I dispensed with my feather light touch and stroked it with enough pressure I could feel it working.... 40 linen/80 leather/40 horse hide. I collected 1 new nick, but something I did sure seemed to make a difference.

I also made some Uber-lather. I loaded up my brush with way more than normal and added a couple mL of Glycerine to the mix..... Lather like I've never made before!

Result: night and day. BBS, comfortable, no nicks or cuts (like... NOTHING!)
3 days ago I was wondering if I'd made a $300 blunder (...again...) but after processing what everyone had to say, and trying to improve on what I was doing I have to say I'm kind of impressed with myself!

Once again the Gents at B&B come through!
A little feed-back goes a long ways sometimes.
Thanks Guys!

 

[Luc]

Excellent! It took me nearly 80 shaves to achieve what I wanted!

 

[wdwrx]

Thanks Luc.
One succesfull shave does not a wet-shaver make; I've still got a bit of work ahead of me.
At least there is a light at the end of the tunnel.