Selling on Ebay...Help/Advice Needed!

[egan3304]

So I've just made my first transaction as a seller on Ebay. I sold a very nice dell computer that was a couple years old. Brand new the computer was close to $4,000 and since I never used it I let it go and the final bid was a little over $1,500. This computer was in great shape and it still even had some plastic coverings on it from when I bought it, it was barely used and practically new.

After the auction end, they buyer paid immediately, being my first time selling I wanted to make sure I did things promptly so I got the computer out and made sure all of my private information was erased and all of the settings were set back to default. I then tested the features (webcam, dongles, speakers, and everything just to double check) I then took the computer in it's case to the UPS store and had the computer packed very nicely and ready to go (It cost me $95 for packing and shipping).

Once I shipped the computer I notified the buyer and he replied with a request to call him as he had a few questions about the computer. So I called and we talked about the computer, the features and all it was a very easy and pleasant conversation. From there I waited for it to arrive, it took 6 days to get to him which is normal.

2 days after the computer was delivered and signed for the buyer calls me to say the computer is not working. I asked if there was a problem with shipping, he said no it was packaged very well but it was very cold when he unpackaged it. So I asked him to explain and he said he powered the computer on just fine and he was setting up his speakers (He's a DJ) and wiring his system, he then tried to hook it up to the internet and he said the screen went black on him and he was unable to get it to work since then. He said the computer powers on but the screen won't show a display.

I told him he should unplug everything and reset the computer and to be sure there is enough power charged to the battery as this machine is a power hog. He was going to do so and let me know the next day. He calls me back and still no luck, now he wants to return the computer and get a full refund.

I am unsure what to do. I know the computer was in perfect working condition when I sent it to him. It was practically new and I double checked the computer before I sent it and everything was in top notch working order.

He believes I sent him a dead computer, which is not the case at all.
To me, it seem it seems like he has shorted something out or has screwed the computer up in some shape or form while trying to hook all of his DJ gear and speakers to the computer.

Now he is trying to send me a non working computer back to me while getting a full refund.

My questions for you are;

What would you do?

If he goes to ebay or paypal saying I sent him a bad computer, how do I defend or prove otherwise?

What are your thoughts?

I scared that if I refund him the money and he did screw up the computer I will be stuck with a dead computer and out a bunch of money considering what I paid for the computer initially.

Anyway, so for the long story but I really do not know what to do here as I feel I am not a fault for the computer not working.

Thanks for your time and advice.

 

[redwoolf]

Was it a laptop or a desktop?

I think that ultimately if he opened the case at any point you should not be liable. It's all too easy to short something out. Nevertheless, most people who sell computers on eBay offer a no Dead On Arrival policy. If he was able to power the computer up even once, it wasn't dead. Still, if it was a laptop and the display is not working it may be best to get the computer back and salvage it for parts or something instead of fighting with ebay and risking a loss of your seller privileges.

What a sucky situation to be in. I always worry about bringing my electronics in from the cold and condensation build up that might short something out when I turn it on.

 

[mmack66]

Good luck with this one. Anymore, I think Craigslist is the best venue for selling stuff like this.

 

[egan3304]

It was a laptop/desktop crossover, it was a very nice computer.

If he were to receive the computer and it didn't power on from the start i could understand but when he told me it was working and he was applying his equipment to the computer and it shut off, I have no control over it so how could it be my fault.

I feel I've upheld my end of the transaction and now he wants to bite because he messed something up.

I don't know, I'm really frustrated because the computer was in superb shape until he jacked it up.

 

[Stubblefield]

I assume you sold it as is, with no warrranty stated or implied.

If it was running fine then 2 days later *poof*, then I would say you are off the hook. You could easily make the argument to eBay that it powered up when delivered (buyer has admitted this) so any "fault" would reside with the buyer.

 

[castlecraver]

I assume you sold it as is, with no warrranty stated or implied.

If it was running fine then 2 days later *poof*, then I would say you are off the hook. You could easily make the argument to eBay that it powered up when delivered (buyer has admitted this) so any "fault" would reside with the buyer.

In a perfect world, yes. But in reality, 99% ebay is going to find in favor of the buyer here.

The OP should have never spoken to the buyer on the phone about the computer. ONLY message through the ebay messaging system, as it's the only way there's a paper trail left behind that you can fall back on if something like this happens. The difference between him telling you on the phone that it initially worked until he plugged his gear in (which ebay just has to take your word on), and having that written in a message that they can verify may be worth $1500 in this case.

But that obviously doesn't help the OP's situation now.

All you can do at this point is "cooperate" with the dispute process if the buyer chooses to escalate it. There's definitely a time limit for filing a dispute -- I'm not saying you should try to drag it out but there may be other options including suggesting that he have it assessed by a PC repair place and sending you the estimate. Because even if he does go through the dispute process, he's going to have to send the PC back to you, insured, signature confirmation before the money is released back to him. And that could end up being more costly than the repair. Perhaps you'd be able to convince him of this?

I really hate to say it, but if your buyer really wants to play hardball and is either a) a scammer who knows what he's doing and/or b) someone who dots his i's and crosses his t's when it comes to filling out forms and following directions, you're probably screwed.

 

[egan3304]

In a perfect world, yes. But in reality, 99% ebay is going to find in favor of the buyer here.

The OP should have never spoken to the buyer on the phone about the computer. ONLY message through the ebay messaging system, as it's the only way there's a paper trail left behind that you can fall back on if something like this happens. The difference between him telling you on the phone that it initially worked until he plugged his gear in (which ebay just has to take your word on), and having that written in a message that they can verify may be worth $1500 in this case.

But that obviously doesn't help the OP's situation now.

All you can do at this point is "cooperate" with the dispute process if the buyer chooses to escalate it. There's definitely a time limit for filing a dispute -- I'm not saying you should try to drag it out but there may be other options including suggesting that he have it assessed by a PC repair place and sending you the estimate. Because even if he does go through the dispute process, he's going to have to send the PC back to you, insured, signature confirmation before the money is released back to him. And that could end up being more costly than the repair. Perhaps you'd be able to convince him of this?

I really hate to say it, but if your buyer really wants to play hardball and is either a) a scammer who knows what he's doing and/or b) someone who dots his i's and crosses his t's when it comes to filling out forms and following directions, you're probably screwed.

I understand this, I don't think he is a scammer but I really could not know but, he hasn't filed for a complaint or anything, he has just simply mentioned that he thinks he is going to send the computer back to me.

Do you think it would be a good idea to contact him through the ebay messaging system re-stating what we talked about on the phone?
My only worry is if I were to message him through ebay is that he would say the exact opposite of what he said on the phone and say it never powered up at all!

This gets me more and more frustrated the more I think about it.

 

[warlandsboy]

In a perfect world, yes. But in reality, 99% ebay is going to find in favor of the buyer here.

The OP should have never spoken to the buyer on the phone about the computer. ONLY message through the ebay messaging system, as it's the only way there's a paper trail left behind that you can fall back on if something like this happens. The difference between him telling you on the phone that it initially worked until he plugged his gear in (which ebay just has to take your word on), and having that written in a message that they can verify may be worth $1500 in this case.

But that obviously doesn't help the OP's situation now.

All you can do at this point is "cooperate" with the dispute process if the buyer chooses to escalate it. There's definitely a time limit for filing a dispute -- I'm not saying you should try to drag it out but there may be other options including suggesting that he have it assessed by a PC repair place and sending you the estimate. Because even if he does go through the dispute process, he's going to have to send the PC back to you, insured, signature confirmation before the money is released back to him. And that could end up being more costly than the repair. Perhaps you'd be able to convince him of this?

I really hate to say it, but if your buyer really wants to play hardball and is either a) a scammer who knows what he's doing and/or b) someone who dots his i's and crosses his t's when it comes to filling out forms and following directions, you're probably screwed.

This is a fantastic post, I couldn't agree more (as unfortunate as it may sound to the OP). I have a lot of experience selling on eBay as well and dealing with these types of customers, and have had my fair share of those scam situations. The whole issue here lies within the eBay/Paypal dispute process. As the above poster stated, more likely then not eBay/Paypal WILL in fact side with the buyer in this case (99% GUARANTEED). As a seller, you must go above and beyond in ANY way possible to cover your *** (especially with expensive items) in the event the buyer takes you through the dispute process.

Unfortunately, I cannot offer any good advice other then support what has already been said here. Clearly even if the buyer is not intentionally a scammer, he sure looks guilty for messing something up. Definitely AVOID phone calls at all cost, which I believe is not a good way to communicate as you don't have proof of conversations (unless they are recorded, but c'mon who does that!). I agree that the best thing to do at this point is ask for a repair quote and go from there.

Good luck to you! I support fellow my fellow eBay sellers as I know how flawed the dispute system is, especially with its unfair treatment of sellers.

 

[egan3304]

This is a fantastic post, I couldn't agree more (as unfortunate as it may sound to the OP). I have a lot of experience selling on eBay as well and dealing with these types of customers, and have had my fair share of those scam situations. The whole issue here lies within the eBay/Paypal dispute process. As the above poster stated, more likely then not eBay/Paypal WILL in fact side with the buyer in this case (99% GUARANTEED). As a seller, you must go above and beyond in ANY way possible to cover your *** (especially with expensive items) in the event the buyer takes you through the dispute process.

Unfortunately, I cannot offer any good advice other then support what has already been said here. Clearly even if the buyer is not intentionally a scammer, he sure looks guilty for messing something up. Definitely AVOID phone calls at all cost, which I believe is not a good way to communicate as you don't have proof of conversations (unless they are recorded, but c'mon who does that!). I agree that the best thing to do at this point is ask for a repair quote and go from there.

Good luck to you! I support fellow my fellow eBay sellers as I know how flawed the dispute system is, especially with its unfair treatment of sellers.

Thanks for the reply.

So would you suggest I send him a message on ebay covering what we already talked about on the phone?

 

[warlandsboy]

Thanks for the reply.

So would you suggest I send him a message on ebay covering what we already talked about on the phone?

Yes, I suppose that would be your best option at this time.

 

[chfair]

sorry to hear about your situation. it sounds like he surely messed something up. unfortunately there is virtually no way to prove that. if it comes down to him denying it worked through messages and says he is going to file a complaint you may offer to do a partial refund if he ships it back (but not until you receive it) so you may not be left completely out of shipping costs.

on a weird side note, recording a phone conversation (even your own phone) in most states is illegal and considered wire tapping. may want to read up on the local law if you plan to in the future

 

[xillion]

Assuming it is one of the larger Dell desktop replacement laptops did you ask him to try switch the video output with the FN and function keys? Maybe during setup he inadvertently set the video output to external display instead of the LCD.

 

[kadett]

Well, I used to work for Dell Corporate Support before they sent all our jobs overseas. My question would be; are sure the warranty has run out on this system. You might want to get him to call Dell or if you still have the service tag for the system you can call yourself and find out if the hardware warranty is still active. I don't know what system you had but alot of the Inspirons and Latitudes have a 4 year warranty included in the price. Depends, but you might want to check. If you do still have the warranty coverage you may be able to get the system repaired under warranty.

Also you should get him to call Dell for telephone troubleshooting support. They can run through different steps to try and resolve the problem over the phone. It may and I stress may be still covered for telephone troubleshooting even if the hardware warranty has run out.

 

[raisindot]

I'd advise you to take it back (let him pay shipping costs to you) and give him a full refund and consider this a lesson learned.

I find it hard to believe that plugging in an internet cable or a power cord caused this to crash. It's more likely that some component was already on the way out or got somewhat loose or damaged when you were packing it or during shipment. It's also possible that you may have inadvertently eliminated some files need to make it run. It's situations like this why most people insure big-ticket items when they ship--I always do.

If you don't return his money, you're going to get a negative rating from him, which will make it harder for you to sell items in the future. Take it back, get him to agree not to leave you a negative rating (or you him), and sell it locally.

Jeff in Boston

 

[egan3304]

Thanks for the help guys!
He filed a SNAD (Significantly Not as Described) complaint this morning with Paypal.

Here is an update as far as communication:

I sent the following message to him basically restating what we talked about over the phone;

"I will talk with my technichian and will call Dell Support to try and help you get the computer back up and running.
To get a better idea of what the problem is exactly so I can communicate to the technician and Dell service, I need to know what happened and how it occured.

What I have communicated to my technician so far is what we have discussed over the phone.
When we last spoke on the phone, the computer initially powered on and you were browsing through the Dell support menu, when trying to connect to the internet the monitor shut off.
When the computer was shutdown you said the your speakers were working because of the extremely loud sounds the computer made when it shut down.
From there, you have been unable to get the monitor to turn back on, while the computer starts up and the lights turn on, the monitor does not show a display.
Does this sound correct in the steps you have taken so far?
Please let me know so I can describe this problem the best I can to both my technician and Dell.

Thanks"

And here are his replies:

"Hi Egan,
we open the box and we set the computer on the desk turn it on.. and at first it came on like it supposed to.. so i started it setting up to internet connection. and the mouse wont not respond to the monitor.. so i shut the computer off to restart monitor didnt come on so better u have to call the dell or bring any technician here...."

and the other response he sent me a couple hours later..

"hi egan,i will try to explain what hapened.... when we first turned on the computer it seemed fine so my wife started to set it up to our internet conection.......the mouse stoped responding to the monitor so the only thing to do was to restart the computer ........ when we did their was nothing on the moniter ever since. i said nothing about the speakers.... it wasnt on long enough to ever get that far or to run anything on the computer,,,,,, we were just trying to set it up........ i am starting to get a headache dealing with this and want to resolf this as soon as posible...we need to get it working properly soon or i will send it back and expect my money back..i have never had a problem like this with any of my ebay dealings and i never had to return a purchase but somthing not right and i want a computer that works properly... thanks norm"

So, my thoughts are this;

As far as the complaint, in my Ebay listing I listed the item as used, had several actual pictures of the computer on my kitchen island with all of the accessories, I also had 4 or 5 pictures with the computer actually turned on.
In my description I described it to the best of my ability as well as copy and pasted the description from the Dell website.
I stated in my auction the computer was used as well as I would not accept returns. I also said it would not be DOA (Dead on Arrival).

So from my point of view I have done everything on my part the correct way. When the computer arrived it powered up and was working, when he began to set things up is when the monitor shut off. In this case, I don't think I should be liable for what he does with the computer after the initial startup. Since he agreed that it did start up normally I shouldn't be held accountable for any change of settings or manipulation of the computer.

What do you guys think?

 

[egan3304]

Anybody have any input?

 

[mmack66]

Post your ebay auction so we can see it for ourselves.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Really, there's no advice I can give without actually seeing the computer. There's no way of knowing if he was innocently setting things up and the computer screwed itself or if he screwed it up because he doesn't know squat about computers. (Judging from his message, he is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree.)

If it were me, I'd offer him a full refund provided he shipped it back to me and it showed no signs of abuse.

Then again, I am capable of repairing it and almost certainly could determine the cause of the problems. Whereupon if he were to blame I'd present them to him and give him the option of a refund minus my cost to repair and my shipping costs or to mail it back to him in the condition he left it in. If it wasn't his fault, I'd give him the refund.


I personally have a policy to never, ever, EVER sell a computer to anyone without a: knowing they are computer literate or b: setting it up for them, and confirming it works in their environment, then leaving them with the idea that they can see that it works, and from here on out, it's on them. It's a little late for that now, though. Sorry.




That said, here's my very not-PC take on things.

1. This guy sounds like an idiot from his messages.
2. Frying the motherboard by putting a voltage signal (which amplifiers can easily output) well beyond what the sound card is wired to handle could easily cause this problem.
3. You said this was a laptop/desktop mix. Does it have PCI slots or PCMCIA2s? I'd expect part of setting up one's DJ equipment on a computer entails putting in a sound card that isn't onboard junk. If it's a PCMCIA2 card (or usb) that's unlikely to cause problems. If he installed a PCI card, that's one of the easiest ways to fry things on a motherboard. You'd be amazed at the "creative" installation methods I've seen for PCI cards.

All that considered. I'd say it's almost certain this guy caused the damage. Suggesting that cold during shipping may have caused it to die tells me that he should never be allowed within ten feet of anything with electricity running through it, for his own safety. The problem is you've got no way to prove it's his fault.

 

[JJMontague]

Did you ship it insured? If so, why not pursue that route?

 

[castlecraver]

(Judging from his message, he is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree.)

Huge +1. I HATE when people use text-speak, say things like "mouse stoped responding to the monitor" (which makes hardly any sense from an English or computing perspective), and generally display the attention to detail of a drunken hillbilly... when they're dealing with a major purchase! Quite honestly, if I was selling it on Craigslist (which is what I do with 99% of my old PC stuff), his email would have been ignored. Because...

I personally have a policy to never, ever, EVER sell a computer to anyone without a: knowing they are computer literate or b: setting it up for them, and confirming it works in their environment, then leaving them with the idea that they can see that it works, and from here on out, it's on them. It's a little late for that now, though. Sorry.

YES! The last PC I sold, I took a lower offer on because I was able to Google the guy's email address and find out he was a CS student, ergo, it was likely he knew what he was getting and knew how to load an OS on a system I'd wiped. I've configured enough wireless networks, installed enough peripherals, and de-virused enough computers to know that people are usually pretty quick to shift responsibility for PC maintenance and repair onto anyone else when they know someone who can do it. And I don't have time to be that guy.

All that considered. I'd say it's almost certain this guy caused the damage. Suggesting that cold during shipping may have caused it to die tells me that he should never be allowed within ten feet of anything with electricity running through it, for his own safety. The problem is you've got no way to prove it's his fault.

I agree. One thing the OP may have in his favor is that his responses to the dispute are going to be coherent, level-headed, detailed and accurate whereas the buyer in this case..... "WTFMAN u sended me a busted *** comp!!!111" Maybe that'll be worth something if a human actually reviews the dispute. *shrug*