Rowing Machine Advice?

[mikej7193]

Hey everyone,

Two years ago today, I had a spinal fusion to correct scoliosis. Lately, I have had a fair amount of pain in my lower, middle, and upper back. I went to the surgeon yesterday, and he said everything looked great, so my pain isn't coming from something shifting or gone wrong there.

He said I really need to do some aerobic exercises to add strength into my back. He suggested running, cycling, ellipticals, and rowing. I already have a stationary bike, and I prefer not to run, since non-impact exercises cause the least amount of pain for me. I am really interested in a rowing machine to compliment a workout with a stationary bike. From what I've read online, Concept 2 is the best brand to go with. If I'm going to be spending at least $1000, I want to make sure I'm getting the best machine for me. This thread helped describe some advantages of the dynamic, but not necessarily issues found with the other types. http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11272 He said that for long distances, the dynamic nature of the rower will save your back.

I just need a bit of help interpreting this all, and any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Obsessed]

I rowed in college. Concept 2 is what we used and I think it's still what virtually all teams use for training.

They didn't have the Dynamic when I was rowing, but looking at the website it seems like it's designed for competitive rowers who need the specific feel provided by the Dynamic to simulate rowing on the water. It doesn't strike me like something the casual user would need to spend extra money on, but I'd suggest calling Concept2, talking to them about your specific needs, and seeing what they recommend.

If you do get a machine, I urge you to take the time to learn proper technique. There are videos on the C2 website. Most people you see at the gym do not row properly at all, and it really diminishes what they get out of the machine. And DO NOT set the damper/resistance too high. You can get a good workout at a lower setting, as you ultimately create the resistance by pulling. I would think that the higher settings would be harder on the back because they have a heavier feel.

 

[mikej7193]

Great idea. I sent them an email and I might call them in a few weeks when I am getting closer to purchasing something. I would probably like to purchase something by the time this quarter ends, so around Memorial Day.

Their FAQ's about the dynamic rower says:

Will the Dynamic be easier on my back?

There are no tests that can claim that the Dynamic is better for backs, knees, or other injuries; however, there are important differences between traditional ergs and the Dynamic that may address the source of problems for some people. On a static erg, body weight moves back and forth, changing the direction of that moving mass (the body) every stroke with the back, core muscles and hamstrings. Perhaps the more significant difference is that the Dynamic promotes rowing at a higher stroke rate than when rowing on the Model D or E, more similar to an on-water stroke rating.
It is commonly understood that intense rowing at low stroke ratings results in high force per stroke, which is transmitted through the rower's body. Higher stroke ratings on the Dynamic result in a lower force per stroke for the same level of power output.

I don't know much about rowing, or how to interpret what this says. I understand things better when numbers are given, or direct comparisons. It sounds like they are saying that people claim less lower back pain, but they can't prove why this is. I could be misinterpreting what this is saying though.


After this weekend, I will have access to a static Concept 2 rower that I can use if I get some free time.

 

[Obsessed]

That FAQ makes some sense.

The term "stroke rating" refers to the number of strokes per minute. The "static" erg (rowing machine) isn't a perfect simulation of on-the-water rowing because it's slower and heavier. They're saying that the Dynamic encourages a higher stroke rating for the same power output, resulting in less force per stroke on the body.

But definitely call them before you buy something.

 

[jkh]

I bought a Concept2 last year and it is amazing. I would recommend it to anyone. As Obsessed pointed out it what competitive rowers train on. Be sure to get the PM4 so you can monitor your heart rate.

 

[Redzone]

My 2 cents.
My wife had 2 back surgery's before being handed over to the top back surgeon in Australasia and he performed a successful double fusion. She got to know him well and learnt a lot from him. We are both Personal Trainers and familiar with functional exercise and aerobic activity and also owned a Concept 2 (fantastic rower)
The surgeon deals with members of the New Zealand Rowing team (the ones that kick butt at the Olympics every year) and in his words "the rowing movement is one of the most dangerous movements you can perform" he was not only referring to professional levels of rowing but the movement itself. He convinced us to stop prescribing it for our clients. Now take what you will from that, this is not my own opinion but someone who fixes backs for a living.

 

[mikej7193]

My 2 cents.
My wife had 2 back surgery's before being handed over to the top back surgeon in Australasia and he performed a successful double fusion. She got to know him well and learnt a lot from him. We are both Personal Trainers and familiar with functional exercise and aerobic activity and also owned a Concept 2 (fantastic rower)
The surgeon deals with members of the New Zealand Rowing team (the ones that kick butt at the Olympics every year) and in his words "the rowing movement is one of the most dangerous movements you can perform" he was not only referring to professional levels of rowing but the movement itself. He convinced us to stop prescribing it for our clients. Now take what you will from that, this is not my own opinion but someone who fixes backs for a living.

Thanks Chris. That's really surprising to hear, since it was suggested that I buy one. I would assume that you and your wife both know the proper technique, and would be able to help others use the proper technique, so bad form wouldn't be a pain-causing issue. I can understand how cranking up the resistance and using bad form can really throw something out of alignment and cause issues.

If rowing wouldn't be the best exercise, how would you suggest strengthening back muscles? I was under the impression that rowing was one of the best exercises for the back because it works all of the muscles that most other exercise misses.

 

[Obsessed]

Mike, I'd really suggest talking to your doctor again and making sure you're on the same page. If the NZ team doctor said that, it merits serious consideration. I'll admit I'm surprised to hear such an adamant statement from him, but my surprise is worth basically nothing. I didn't know anyone who hurt their back rowing, but we were all 18-22 and in great shape at the time, so it's not a valid comparison. And while I think that rowing with proper technique would help avoid back problems, virtually no one besides current or ex-rowers uses or teaches proper technique.

 

[SEnSE]

I'd suggest trying one out to see how you feel on it. WaterRower offers a very reasonable rental program.

 

[KCee]

Concept2 makes some great stuff. I used to work with them and as far as I know they have the best rowing machines. I worked with WaterRower as well and they make a great product as well, but if you want THE best rower it's probably Concept2. I agree with others that you really need to learn the correct form or you could still hurt yourself.

Not to muddy the waters, but you may want to check out a product called Jacobs Ladder. I don't own one, but I worked with them as well (I worked with most fitness companies at one time a few years ago) and it's a great product that was designed by someone with back and knee problems. It's not cheap, but it's incredibly effective and I think it gives a better workout than the rower. If you change your mind and go the elliptical route, I really like Octane Fitness. They only make ellipticals and have some of the best including seated models.

 

[Obsessed]

Not to muddy the waters, but you may want to check out a product called Jacobs Ladder. I don't own one, but I worked with them as well (I worked with most fitness companies at one time a few years ago) and it's a great product that was designed by someone with back and knee problems. It's not cheap, but it's incredibly effective and I think it gives a better workout than the rower.

They have one of those at my gym. I've only tried it one or twice, but it's a pretty cool machine and definitely seems like a hard workout. One of the trainers said it's supposed to keep your back in a neutral position.

 

[Pebcak]

Concept 2 is the top of the food pile when it comes to rowers. Even the older models are excellent.

Personally I can't stand the bloody things. The most pain I've even been in was because of a C2 rower and a 500m sprint. I just couldn't find a comfortable position to die/recover.

"Rowing is the most dangerous movements there is"? I think you need to find a better doctor.

 

[_MementoMori_]

I have the poor man's rowing machine: a set of heavy resistance bands ran around a heavy, immobile object. I just sit flat on my butt, grab the resistance bands shoulder width apart, and go to town. Seems to work - I get crazy burn from it.

 

[blary54]

I bought a concept 2 last year too. For the price I think its the best cardio equipment you can buy for your home. It's built like a rock, the same machine that gyms use and only around 1K(got mine for around $940 on amazon) .A gym quality elliptical or treadmill is around 3-5K. Also these rowers retain their value very well if you decide you want to sell it.

Oh and its an amazing workout...20 min of rowing feels like I just ran 10 miles.

 

[Redzone]

At the end of the day mate it's just someone else's opinion albeit a trusted one. I am not fully on board with his thinking at all but then I don't spend my days fixing backs with the knife. Weigh everything up and make your own decision. I have worked with enough professionals to know they don't always get it right and I'm sure I don't either sometimes.
If you decide to use one then as mentioned use good form and stay away from sprints. Get a good trainer or physio to give you a specific strengthening program.

Thanks Chris. That's really surprising to hear, since it was suggested that I buy one. I would assume that you and your wife both know the proper technique, and would be able to help others use the proper technique, so bad form wouldn't be a pain-causing issue. I can understand how cranking up the resistance and using bad form can really throw something out of alignment and cause issues.

If rowing wouldn't be the best exercise, how would you suggest strengthening back muscles? I was under the impression that rowing was one of the best exercises for the back because it works all of the muscles that most other exercise misses.

 

[TimmyBoston]

I know very little about rowers, but I like the Concept 2's at my gym. Best of luck in your decision!

 

[mikej7193]

I got a response from Concept2. Great customer service to take time to send a lengthy reply!

Hi Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to write.
This is not an easy question to answer because 1) each body is different, and 2) I have not heard a clear consensus either way re: the difference of fixed vs dynamic rowing for the back. The latter is probably caused by the former!
Please also understand that I am not a medical professional, so my advice will be based simply on my own years of experience with rowing and what we have heard from customers over many years.
First, I would agree that rowing should be a good way to strengthen your back. It is one of few exercises that uses the back, and can therefore strengthen it. Over the years of making and selling the fixed rowers, we have heard a lot of good feedback from people who have found that rowing has helped their backs, even relieved chronic pain.
The debate over fixed vs dynamic rowing really emerged from the on-water rowing crowd, who do a LOT of indoor rowing in the off-season. My personal observation is that they do a large percentage of this rowing at pretty good intensity but a low stroke rate, which means the flywheel has more time to slow down, and thus the load is heavier at the beginning of each stroke. My suspicion is that this kind of training is what has caused a lot of the complaints about back pain. And maybe the Dynamic helps this, I’m not sure. But a non-water-rower, who is simply looking for good exercise and conditioning, does not need to row hard at a low stroke rate.
So I’m thinking that the Model D will give you the benefits you are looking for, at a lower price. If you have access to a Model D to try, that might be a good first step before purchase. Remember to start easily and not row too far or hard the first time. Since your back muscles aren’t used to it, you may feel some soreness. It’s important to build up gradually, and take a few rest days, to be sure it’s all feeling good.
As you probably already know, one of the nice features of wind-resistance rowing is that you, the user, are in complete control of the intensity of your workout. The harder you pull, the more resistance you will feel.
I hope this helps a bit, though it may not be as definite an answer as you were hoping for.
Best of luck with it, and feel free to ask further questions if you have them.

It sounds like since I am not interested in professionally rowing, the lower model would be just fine for me. I'll try to see what piece of equipment is at Rose-Hulman this evening.

 

[KCee]

Concept2 is a great co. IMO. I visited them a couple of times and it's one of those places where you think "damn I wish I worked here" lol. Great atmosphere and very nice people. As good as their rowers are they are more famous for their custom oars that most Olympic athletes use.

 

[tm3]

C2 is a great machine. If at all possible I would recommend your auditioning one before buying. Back pain is a not uncommon problem with the C2 and I would think that your prior back problems may make you more susceptible.

 

[mikej7193]

C2 is a great machine. If at all possible I would recommend your auditioning one before buying. Back pain is a not uncommon problem with the C2 and I would think that your prior back problems may make you more susceptible.

There isn't a C2 machine that I can freely use here on campus. They do have a Schwinn rowing machine though, and it gave me a bit of a workout on the maximum setting, but nothing like what others report from a C2.