It's nice to see Molly Tuttle on the list. And don't get me wrong. She's great. But no Tony Rice? Come on. Molly's style wouldn't even exist without Tony Rice.
Rolling Stone 250 Greatest Guitarists
- Thread starter The Knize
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- #22
Molly Tuttle, absolutely. No Billy Strings, though. No David Rawlings.
I agree that Andy Summers at 250 is very odd. Influential player.
I agree that Andy Summers at 250 is very odd. Influential player.
This is a great rant... 
I'm an unabashed Joni Mitchell fan, although I much prefer her later work like Hejira and Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. Her open tunings are legendary and her creativity unmatched.As least they have Joni Mitchell in the top 10 and didn't let that slacker Slash crack the top 100.
As for Slash ... not a fan. And if I hear that opening Sweet Child O' Mine riff one more time in my life, I will pull a fresh Nacet from my stash and take off my watch to allow greater access to my wrist.
Well said!
Rick called me up for my opinion.This is a great rant...
Just kidding. It was a great rant and well deserved!
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- #27
I thought Beato's take was excellent.
As long as Clapton is low enough to make people unhappy, I'm happy.
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- #29
The way tastes vary among fans is always interesting. I was always much more a fan of her earlier stuff, up through Court and Spark, I suppose, but I really liked For the Roses Better, and probably still am. It took me a while to come around to the later, jazzier stuff. But in the past couple of years I have found that things like "Amelia," and maybe even "Coyote" are truly great. (I guess I am not sure I like Joni as a person! I sure would not want to have been John Guerin whom she was quietly engaged to and living with in Canada, as I recall, at the time she took up with Sam Shepard for a few days; I guess I would not have wanted to be Sam Shepard's wife either. I find myself less resonat and sympathetic these days with Joni's songs about her personal heartbreak, the more I know about her choices in her love life!) Anyway, at one point when she was really turning toward jazz, I thought the world does not need another weakly skilled jazz player. I mean leave poor Charles Mingus the heck alone, Joni, you are not in the same jazz universe as he is and never will be. The world does need someone who could do what she did as a singer-songwriter. But I have more or less come around. Although to me she has never done an album as good as a lot of the pre-Court and Spark work after that album, and to me she has also put out a fair amount of forgettable stuff.
Sorry to ramble, but I saw a quote from her at one point where she said she did not like to do the older stuff anymore, that it felt like a different Joni put that material out. My feeling was, in that case, I like the old Joni a lot better!
I agree with that. She is a great musician.
I guess I do like Slash, though. I think Guns and Roses helped music get back from a bad place it seemed to be headed toward. he may not be technically the best, but I think he conveys a lot of energy and emotion.
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- #30
No Kenny Wayne Shepard! A wonderful SRV protege, who has never quite gotten his due. Maybe he has never quite lived up to his potential.
No Lowell George? Slide players in general seem dissed. No Sonny Landref?
No Martin Barre?
Nice to see John Cippolina of Quicksilver on there.
I really like Chrissie Hynde and, for that matter, Carrie Brownstein, but I would not say they are great guitar players. Not ranked as highly as they are on the RS list, anyway. Might as well put Susanna Hoffs on there. (Maybe she is!) I am all for including worthy women players on the list, but those two are a huge stretch. They left off Orianthi, who really is a great player. Bad, not credible, job.
I get Elizabeth Cotton, but was she really that great a player? Was Odetta?
No Lowell George? Slide players in general seem dissed. No Sonny Landref?
No Martin Barre?
Nice to see John Cippolina of Quicksilver on there.
I really like Chrissie Hynde and, for that matter, Carrie Brownstein, but I would not say they are great guitar players. Not ranked as highly as they are on the RS list, anyway. Might as well put Susanna Hoffs on there. (Maybe she is!) I am all for including worthy women players on the list, but those two are a huge stretch. They left off Orianthi, who really is a great player. Bad, not credible, job.
I get Elizabeth Cotton, but was she really that great a player? Was Odetta?
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I absolutely loathe Guns 'N' Roses. Their music never appealed to me in any way. I think a lot of it was Axl Rose's voice, which I find only slightly more melodic than a farm tractor running over a skunk.
But music is always subjective.
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- #32
Interesting as always. I do not thing we are that different on lots of music items, but we are here, it looks like. I would say it is difficult to separate out Axl the person from Axl the vocalist. I do not know that a decade ago I would have had much to say about Axl as a vocalist. But in the meantime, maybe in part from watching some You Tube videos of folks singing like Axl, I have come to think of him as doing some amazing things with his voice, that I really like, even if they are not sweet sounding. He sounds rather original to me, and I think what he does fits the music. Seem very rock and roll to me. But I would not say melodic!
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- #33
I hear you. But if I were writing about music for a living, especially as a critic, I would hope that I had some knowledge of the subject! For that matter, that I had some reputation in the community of folks who follow music, for knowing what I was talking about and for having an opinion that mattered.
For that matter, I doubt that Lester Bangs had any degree at all, but I think his opinion mattered and was exceedingly well-informed. I am, sadly, blanking on others who wrote for RS and other music rags back in the day. I guess Ben Fong-Torres also comes to mind. These folks not only were informed about the music scene, their insights and influence helped create the music scenes that were major cultural forces. They helped us understand the subject. They not only observed, they were part of things. Their lists would have been accurate and otherwise meaningful and educational.
What educational function does this list serve? Something akin to propaganda that we should all be listening to more women or world guitar players? Fair enough that some women players have been underappreciated. But this list is akin to every kid gets a trophy day. The trophy does not mean much if awarded on the basis of affirmative action. Credibility is a hard thing to earn and an easy thing to lose.
I hate this to be just a rant that things were better back in the day. And I am sorry to ramble on and I promise to shut up soon. I did begin by saying I promised myself I would not get caught up in this list! Not that some of this stuff is not fun to think, talk, and even rant about. But this did not seem like a good faith effort, and it could have actually been something valuable!
I think that most would suggest a sharp contrast in what is journalism today as compared to years ago.
The number of "professional" articles I see today riddled with simple spelling and grammar errors are too numerous to count.
And we are living in an age where many judge the quality of talent based not on the talent, but the public profession and embracement of Socially approved opinion.
These types seek out and surround themselves with like minded individuals and do not tolerate those who would question the Gospel.
There are of course, exceptions.
I do not for one nanosecond believe that Rolling Stone Magazine falls into the exception category.
Rolling Stones opinions on anything mean nothing to me. Never have never will.
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- #36
I hesitate to wade in further, here, Phil. Like I said, above <I hate this to be just a rant that things were better back in the day.> But I think there is truth in that. Maybe the economics of journalism and related publishing has changed for that money is not there to go to good reporting, research, and writing. So much content seems to go out over the internet as free content the second it is published, whereas in the past one had to buy that newspaper or subscribe to that magazine to read content. I guess I agree that a lot of what passes for journalism these days seems slopped out with little thought and based not on independent investigation, but simply upon statements by some person or other that may or may not have any basis in fact. How would anyone know without doing the work it takes to dig out what is true and what is a spin, or a baseless conspiracy theory, or a dog whistle.
And I was trying to think whether I thought all journalist-type writing was much poorer than it used to be. I am thinking not. I am not sure, though. I think perhaps sports writing is as good as it has ever been. Maybe better. As long as I have been alive, however, any newspaper article on anything I knew a lot about was terrible. Incomplete. Sketchy. Misleading. Inaccurate!
I think I would feel better if I thought the feckless nature of this RS effort was the result of trying to toe some politically correct line. RS has gotten a lot of grief in the past about being sexist and of ignoring the accomplishments of non-white musicians, and I think that in many instances has been deserved, and that RS, and, for instance, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which was founded by Jann Wenner, and I think still controlled to some extent by him, has reacted by overcompensating. And that may well account for what seems to me an overrepresentation and higher ranking of women who are not even primarily guitar players on this list. But I do not see non-white guitarists as either over or underrepresented on this list.
Other than women, I do not see any consistent political bias in this list. Like I said, I would feel better if the listmakers thought they were somehow doing the right thing, whether you and I think they were misguided or not. I mostly see incredibly sloppy, haphazard, thrown together work.
One could say that the list reflects Jann Wenner's arbitrary preferences and dislikes. That the listmakers are trying to please the boss. And no doubt JW has shown some bizarre preferences in the past, and some vindictive, seemingly baseless biases. And no doubt he has become an odd duck of all odd ducks. But I do not see that either. Seems to me groups RS has unduly championed over the decades appear in random spots on the list, if they appear at all. As I recall, Clapton has never been done any wrong as far as RS is concerned, and took a big drop in this ranking. Groups RS unfairly dissed, Led Zep and Balck Sabbath, show up fine on the list. I suppose RS has seemingly never liked Smashing Pumpkins--I could be wrong about that!--and Billy Corgan is not on the list. I suppose Ted Nugent, known for certain strong rightwing positions, is not on the list. But he has always seemed like a one hit wonder to me, who happens also to be a publicity hound. Two hits if you count the Amboy Dukes, a terrible band by most accounts.
But at least the list has created an interesting and spirited discussion among good friends on B&B!
And I was trying to think whether I thought all journalist-type writing was much poorer than it used to be. I am thinking not. I am not sure, though. I think perhaps sports writing is as good as it has ever been. Maybe better. As long as I have been alive, however, any newspaper article on anything I knew a lot about was terrible. Incomplete. Sketchy. Misleading. Inaccurate!
I think I would feel better if I thought the feckless nature of this RS effort was the result of trying to toe some politically correct line. RS has gotten a lot of grief in the past about being sexist and of ignoring the accomplishments of non-white musicians, and I think that in many instances has been deserved, and that RS, and, for instance, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which was founded by Jann Wenner, and I think still controlled to some extent by him, has reacted by overcompensating. And that may well account for what seems to me an overrepresentation and higher ranking of women who are not even primarily guitar players on this list. But I do not see non-white guitarists as either over or underrepresented on this list.
Other than women, I do not see any consistent political bias in this list. Like I said, I would feel better if the listmakers thought they were somehow doing the right thing, whether you and I think they were misguided or not. I mostly see incredibly sloppy, haphazard, thrown together work.
One could say that the list reflects Jann Wenner's arbitrary preferences and dislikes. That the listmakers are trying to please the boss. And no doubt JW has shown some bizarre preferences in the past, and some vindictive, seemingly baseless biases. And no doubt he has become an odd duck of all odd ducks. But I do not see that either. Seems to me groups RS has unduly championed over the decades appear in random spots on the list, if they appear at all. As I recall, Clapton has never been done any wrong as far as RS is concerned, and took a big drop in this ranking. Groups RS unfairly dissed, Led Zep and Balck Sabbath, show up fine on the list. I suppose RS has seemingly never liked Smashing Pumpkins--I could be wrong about that!--and Billy Corgan is not on the list. I suppose Ted Nugent, known for certain strong rightwing positions, is not on the list. But he has always seemed like a one hit wonder to me, who happens also to be a publicity hound. Two hits if you count the Amboy Dukes, a terrible band by most accounts.
But at least the list has created an interesting and spirited discussion among good friends on B&B!
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- #37
No Terry Kath, for heaven's sake. It may be apocryphal, but it is said that when Hendrix was asked what it felt like to be the best guitar player on earth he said: "I don't know. You would have to ask Terry Kath."
+1000. His absence made that whole list meaningless; easily should have been in the top 40. Hendrix and Kath became good friends, and Prince has related that he strived to copy Kath's solo on "Make Me Smile." Chicago? A ballad band? Not in the early years, and A LOT of it due to Terry's self-taught skill.
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