Remove hone from this box

[gumbo]

I've read some on how to remove stones from boxes using heat (200F in the oven?)
But I was just curious if anyone had any idiosyncratic experiences with newer Norton Arkansas. Just got this one in the mail, I have a cousin who's a Norton Rep and he hooked me up for the cost of shipping.
8x2, nice stone, and I do like the dovetailed box a lot. But I store my stones "naked" and would prefer to remove it.
I know the old addage "it's much better to damage the box than the stone" rule, but I don't want to damage either.

 

[Gamma]

heat was used to release old stones from coffin boxes. Yours is new and it may, or may not, be glued in with something a bit more resistant to heat.
Can't hurt to try it I guess.

Nice stone btw...

 

[ACorazza]

The heat trick works, I used it on an old thuringian. That being said I can't guarantee it will work for you because the old glue is not as advanced as newer alternatives and the old glue was not as resistant to heat.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

First mark the sides of the stone with a pencil all around the sides of the stone at the edge of the box.

Then hold the stone in your hand, palm on the bottom.

Now tap down on the end of the wooden box with your pinning hammer or any small hammer. Tap 3-4 light taps then tap 3-4 taps on the other end. The stone will remain stationary and the box will slip off the stone.

Look at your pencil marks to see if the stone is moving. If it is releasing, you will hear the difference in the sound the tapping.

If after a few taps, it is not moving, it may be glued and you will have to split the box with a sharp chisel if the heat trick does not work.

When you replace the stone relive the box where the rub marks are.

 

[gumbo]

Thanks all. With the heat, do I risk the stone cracking if it cools outside of the oven? In other words if I take it out of the oven hot and remove the stone from the box, should I turn the oven off and put the stone back in or just leave it out on the counter to cool?

 

[Gamma]

Hard to say - depends on a few factors.
Better to be safe and let it cool in the oven with the door shut.

 

[Kentos]

Could you contact your cousin to find out Norton uses to glue them in? I would guess a hot melt gun as it would be the easiest, but maybe they use epoxy, super glue, or it could just be a press fit.

 

[Drybonz]

I have a cousin who's a Norton Rep and he hooked me up for the cost of shipping.

You are gonna get a lot of PM's talking like that.

 

[gumbo]

Hard to say - depends on a few factors.
Better to be safe and let it cool in the oven with the door shut.

Thanks, I'll do that .

Could you contact your cousin to find out Norton uses to glue them in? I would guess a hot melt gun as it would be the easiest, but maybe they use epoxy, super glue, or it could just be a press fit.

Unfortunately, he works in the industrial sales division, and sells more grinding wheels, abrasives, etc. on a larger scale. But I can try to ask him and see if he knows anyone that would know.

You are gonna get a lot of PM's talking like that.

Haha. Believe it or not they get a "gratis" budget...I've already considered discussing a group buy for 4/8s and/or arks. We'll see.

 

[blackhhawk]

You could use a band saw and cut off as much wood as possible, then a belt sander to get the rest. Might be tricky with the saw and take a while with sanding, but if all else fails...

 

[gumbo]

Well, I tried 200F for an our in the oven. No dice.
I don't want to ruin the box, so until I find a better solution i think I'm just going to keep it as is.
I don't understand the point of gluing stones into boxes...You can always keep it in the box without permanently fixing it. I'm frustrated about it.

 

[PapaFish]

Be careful with heat. Too much heat shock can cause cracking. I saw one for sale a while back that was boiled to remove oil and clean it up, and it just wound up with a bunch of cracking around the edges.

 

[xMackx]

Be careful with heat. Too much heat shock can cause cracking. I saw one for sale a while back that was boiled to remove oil and clean it up, and it just wound up with a bunch of cracking around the edges.

Very true, boiled rocks can even explode.

 

[Gamma]

Maybe try freezing it.
Cold makes things contract, might cause the stone and glue to pull apart enough.
I never tried it, can't imagine it would harm the stone, but I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

[oakeshott]

Extreme heat and extreme cold can both do the same thing. It isn't that they "cause" cracking in the stone, it's that they cause existing cracks to propagate. Same thing in metal and the harder the metal, the more the crack is prone to move. My guess is that nearly every rock is riddled with cracks that are too small to see with the unaided eye or that the cracks exist just below the surface. Since heat and cold cause things to swell or shrink, it puts pressure on the end of the crack to relieve the stress by moving.

I've watched while a piece of tool steel cracked because it was allowed to cool down in the ambient temperature of the shop rather than brought down slowly with torch. Or cast iron pieces left outside and there was an unexpected freeze and the cast iron the next morning had a crack turning it into scrap.

Another element which could cause a brittle material to crack under temperature change is any V shape. The bottom of the V acts as a stress concentrater in the stone or metal. All the movement concentrates in the apex of the V. A U shape is much better for distributing the stress and therefore is less likely to crack.

In either case, heating it up or freezing it, you're running a risk. Neither might harm the stone, but either could very well crack it. Just depends on the state of the stone in places you can't see.

If it's REALLY important that you not have the stone in a box, try it. Just accept the fact that you may need to get another one from your cousin.

 

[Gamma]

Absolutely - you can never be 100% positive about whether or not the stone will make it with heating or freezing.

One large part of stones cracking due to freezing is water-content. Water expands when frozen while the stone itself will contract.

 

[xMackx]

To be honest if it was me you have two safe choices. Either leave it as is, or destroy the box getting it out. Just my two cents.

I'd take it to my bandsaw and cut the sides of the box off, then it would be like a board mounted stone.

 

[Kentos]

Some industrial hot glue melts at 300+ so 200 may have been too low.