Red Tipped Flared D1 +

[john parker]

Have a red tipped, flared Super Speed with D1 date code and a "+" on the base plate on either side of where the handle attaches. Somewhere recently I read that the "+" indicates heavy. Cannot find where I read that nor can I find any other info on it. Nothing in Mr Razor that I could find. Does anyone have an info on these razors?

Thanks!!!

 

[john parker]

Didn't look thoroughly enough!! Found this http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/58679-Gillette-Heavy-Super-Speed-(Red-Tip) and found reference in the Wiki. But, I still do not have a clear idea of what the "+" represents. Did it evolve on all red tips? Or where some made with it and some without it? If it means heavy, how much more heavy?

 

[MacDaddy]

The Red Tip itself was called the "Heavy" Super Speed by Gillette. Check out the commercial below to see them refer to the Blue Tip as the "Light" Super Speed, too. The plus under the head (and the circle that's on some of the Blue Tips) was likely to help them to distinguish between the parts at the factory so they didn't accidentally put the wrong head on a given handle.

 

[john parker]

The Red Tip itself was called the "Heavy" Super Speed by Gillette. Check out the commercial below to see them refer to the Blue Tip as the "Light" Super Speed, too. The plus under the head (and the circle that's on some of the Blue Tips) was likely to help them to distinguish between the parts at the factory so they didn't accidentally put the wrong head on a given handle.

Thank you! That certainly makes sense! Did not realize that the red was, by design, heavier than the others. All I have ever read led me to believe that the red was more aggressive, but never why that was so.

 

[MacDaddy]

Thank you! That certainly makes sense! Did not realize that the red was, by design, heavier than the others. All I have ever read led me to believe that the red was more aggressive, but never why that was so.

Beyond their weights, the geometry of the heads are different, too. The Red Tip has slightly more blade exposure than the Regular or the Blue Tip. All the same, in the grand scheme of things it's still a fairly middle-of-the-road razor in terms of "aggressiveness."

 

[Fatboy]

The Red Tip with the ++ under the head is a more aggressive design than the standard. I will dig up the post that explains it as soon as I get to my pc. I'm on the tablet now and the search is not robust enough to find it.

 

[ERVARGASNY]

Strange, As i found a Mint RedTip Flared , in original case, with wrapped blades and instruction and the Heavy sign attached to case as well, Except mine doesnt have the Heavy ++ Sign on the bottom plate of the Razor ? Date code is A-4/1955

Link to my Redtip post here. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ne-Does-work-Gillette-Red-Tip-Find?highlight=

 

[john parker]

Strange, As i found a Mint RedTip Flared , in original case, with wrapped blades and instruction and the Heavy sign attached to case as well, Except mine doesnt have the Heavy ++ Sign on the bottom plate of the Razor ? Date code is A-4/1955

Link to my Redtip post here. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ne-Does-work-Gillette-Red-Tip-Find?highlight=

According to the Wiki, the "+" first started appearing with the C-1 date code.

 

[nemo]

As far as I have seen and measured, Red Tips with the plus signs are the same aggressiveness as the plain ones and as John stated earlier, the "+ +" was put on the later ones. Does anyone have a date code later than C1 without the plus signs?

I did some measurements using feeler gauges back in 2010 -- same blade gap. Although I will not say this is conclusive evidence, I have owned and shaved with at least 20 Red Tips and they seem to be about the same.

 

[Fatboy]

I finally found the thread with the explanation. Here is the quoted text from THIS THREAD:

The plus sign indicates heavy/aggressive. The Blue Tips of that issue have a Negative or dash symbol. The regular Super Speeds were blank or had a zero.

The British Rocket versions used a "I" for light/mild, "II" for regular. and "III" for heavy/aggressive.

They were only used on the 50's style Super Speeds and British Rockets of the same era. I believe they were factory marks to ensure that the correct heads were always associated with the correct handles. They would make no sense for public use since the handles would define the correct weight/aggressiveness.

As I said, not all Red Tips have the + sign, but + signs are ONLY found on Red Tips and signifies that it is the aggressive head. In addition, not all Blue Tips have the - sign, but - signs are ONLY found on Blue Tips and signifies that it is the non-aggressive, light weight version. Likewise, not all Regulars have the zero, but zeros are ONLY found on Regulars.

I know this for a fact. There is nothing more mysterious about it.

 

[john parker]

Put a Feathe into the red tip this morning, and shaved with it for the first time. Nice; every bit as good as my DE89L with a Super Iridium.

 

[MacDaddy]

I finally found the thread with the explanation. Here is the quoted text from THIS THREAD:

As I said, not all Red Tips have the + sign, but + signs are ONLY found on Red Tips and signifies that it is the aggressive head. In addition, not all Blue Tips have the - sign, but - signs are ONLY found on Blue Tips and signifies that it is the non-aggressive, light weight version. Likewise, not all Regulars have the zero, but zeros are ONLY found on Regulars.

I know this for a fact. There is nothing more mysterious about it.

I'm pretty sure that this is incorrect. I've never seen an American Regular with an kind of marking, and I've only seen American Blue Tips with circles not minuses -- in fact, I'm holding one right now from the first quarter of 1956 (B-1). Below is a random photo I pulled off an auction listing for one, too.

 

[Graybeard57]

Hmmm, interesting. My C1 Red Tip has ++ on it. Having it Rhodium replated now; hope the ++ are still visible.

 

[ERVARGASNY]

According to the Wiki, the "+" first started appearing with the C-1 date code.

Ok so that explains, why i have an E1/1959 with + + and also the not so Common F1/1960 with + + sign as well, Thanks.

 

[alex2363]

I'm pretty sure that this is incorrect. I've never seen an American Regular with an kind of marking, and I've only seen American Blue Tips with circles not minuses -- in fact, I'm holding one right now from the first quarter of 1956 (B-1). Below is a random photo I pulled off an auction listing for one, too.

View attachment 307779

Why would Asylumguido make that statement if he was not sure, he was always accurate on his explanations. Did he quote a wrong source as i do sometimes?

 

[alex2363]

As far as I have seen and measured, Red Tips with the plus signs are the same aggressiveness as the plain ones and as John stated earlier, the "+ +" was put on the later ones. Does anyone have a date code later than C1 without the plus signs?

I did some measurements using feeler gauges back in 2010 -- same blade gap. Although I will not say this is conclusive evidence, I have owned and shaved with at least 20 Red Tips and they seem to be about the same.

20 Redtips? Now thats alota Retips

 

[MacDaddy]

Why would Asylumguido make that statement if he was not sure, he was always accurate on his explanations. Did he quote a wrong source as i do sometimes?

I really couldn't tell you. I can't think of any logical reason he would have thought that the Regulars sometimes got circles or that the Blue Tips got minuses. Like I said, I don't think I've ever seen an American Regular with any kind of marking -- and I've handled more than a couple. I also am not that sure that I've seen an American Blue Tip that didn't have the circles stamped on it. Here's an A-1 Blue Tip, even, that shows the circles:



It does look like the Red Tips started getting the pluses at or right around C-1, though. So perhaps they just decided to start marking them two years after the Blue Tip heads for some reason. Alternatively, it's possible that the Regular and the Red Tip shared the same head for the first couple of years and the handle was the only real difference between them, then they changed either the Regular's or the Red Tip's head and needed the '+' mark to distinguish between them the same way they had already been using the circle on the Blue Tip's.

 

[alex2363]

I really couldn't tell you. I can't think of any logical reason he would have thought that the Regulars sometimes got circles or that the Blue Tips got minuses. Like I said, I don't think I've ever seen an American Regular with any kind of marking -- and I've handled more than a couple. I also am not that sure that I've seen an American Blue Tip that didn't have the circles stamped on it. Here's an A-1 Blue Tip, even, that shows the circles:

View attachment 308301

It does look like the Red Tips started getting the pluses at or right around C-1, though. So perhaps they just decided to start marking them two years after the Blue Tip heads for some reason. Alternatively, it's possible that the Regular and the Red Tip shared the same head for the first couple of years and the handle was the only real difference between them, then they changed either the Regular's or the Red Tip's head and needed the '+' mark to distinguish between them the same way they had already been using the circle on the Blue Tip's.

But isnt the regular head gap less aggressive than the Red tips head....wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the aggressive symbol designation? (I,I, III) why would they use the same heads at one point?