Read Japanese?

[Bertilak]

Can anyone read enough Japanese to translate these instructions?

What is in that bottle? Is number 2 a suggestion or a warning?

This is from Naniwa Lapping Plate 220 Grit - $21.99 : Straight Razor Designs, The Finest In Gentlemens Shaving And Grooming Needs

 

[luvmysuper]

My friends wife is Japanese, and I'm having breakfast with him tomorrow. I'll ask him and give you what I can find out by mid-day tomorrow.

 

[adonnellyr]

I have one of these on the way too. I'd be interested to hear the translation. Also, I'd like to hear how you get on with it when you attempt to use it if you don't mind sharing Bob

 

[ZethLent]

It says that if you use the abbrasive powder (sold seperatly) in conjunction with the lapping block then the lapping will go faster, and the finished hone surface will be 'nicer'. It is not essential but could be useful depending on how much lapping needs to be done.

It also cautions that the lapping block is somewhat fragile and that it may break or get damaged if you drop it or bang it against something.

I hope this helps.

 

[luvmysuper]

It says that if you use the abbrasive powder (sold seperatly) in conjunction with the lapping block then the lapping will go faster, and the finished hone surface will be 'nicer'. It is not essential but could be useful depending on how much lapping needs to be done.

It also cautions that the lapping block is somewhat fragile and that it may break or get damaged if you drop it or bang it against something.

I hope this helps.

Ok, that answers that question. Thanks.

 

[Partsu]

This should explain a little: http://www.fine-tools.com/G-abrichtblock.html

The bottle contains silicon carbide powder, which can speed up the flattening process a little bit. You don't necessarily need it with that stone as it is 220 grit already. I have a Shapton lapping plate and I need 3 different bottles of silicon carbide powder because the lapping plate itself is perfectly smooth. Although I usually just flatten my coarsest stone on the lapping plate and then start rubbing my sharpening stones together.

Number 2. is not a warning, use the flattening stone in a circular motion, go back and forth, sideways, whatever.

 

[Bertilak]

Thank you all very much. That was very helpful.

LAPPING:

As to my experience, I lapped four Naniwas:

1K
5K
8K
12K

Per the SRD writeup it was only recommended for 2K and up but I didn't notice that until afterwards.

In any case it went OK. I kept things pretty wet, re-wetting both the stone and the lapping plate quite often (one or two minute intervals; guessing, not timed) by holding under running water.

The 1K did take a fairly long time, but that may be because the other three had already been lapped by a DTC 325. The reason I got the Naniwa lapping plate was because the DTC was just not getting the last bit. I had drawn pencil line grids and some of the corners just would not come clean. The Naniwa lapper did the trick. I think I ruined my DTC by lapping a super-hard barbers hone (Swatty).

HONING:

I honed an eBay purchase (in attached picture) but didn't get to shave with it yet.

I started with the 1K to set the bevel and used the thumb nail test until I got that "wants to cut into the nail" feeling nice and evenly along the length of the blade. Also used a marker on the edge to be sure the whole thing was getting honed.

Then I did a sort of pyramid on the 5K and 8K. I did it "for a while" with about twice as many passes as I've seen given as examples. Then an arm hair test. That was hugely successful -- more so than on razors that have come from respected honemeisters.

I followed up with a bout 20 passes on the 12K and 10 passes on a CrO2 strop then regular stropping.

I will know how it shaves this PM.

This is a before picture from eBay. The razor looks pretty good in the picture but under 10x mag the edge was really rough.

 

[adonnellyr]

Thanks for the information Bob! This sounds really promising, since the setup I will be using is basically the same. I'm just wondering, does Naniwa make a 13K as well, or are you referring to the 12K? And did you find the lapping stone left the 12K surface looking scratchy, or does it look nicely finished?

Glad to hear the honing went so well!

 

[Bertilak]

Thanks for the information Bob! This sounds really promising, since the setup I will be using is basically the same. I'm just wondering, does Naniwa make a 13K as well, or are you referring to the 12K? And did you find the lapping stone left the 12K surface looking scratchy, or does it look nicely finished?

Glad to hear the honing went so well!

Sorry! error in post. its a Naniwa 12K. I'll edit the post.

I didn't examine the surfaces with a magnifier but they feel really smooth! I didn't bother to examine them because I knew I was going to hone with them no mater what. Real test is how well the razor comes out in the end.

 

[adonnellyr]

Sorry! error in post. its a Naniwa 12K. I'll edit the post.

I didn't examine the surfaces with a magnifier but they feel really smooth! I didn't bother to examine them because I knew I was going to hone with them no mater what. Real test is how well the razor comes out in the end.

Makes perfect sense. I only asked because I posted a thread about the lapping stone a week or so ago and there was a comment about how it may leave the surface looking "scratchy" or something along those lines. If you can't see it though then I'm sure that isn't the case.

Let us know how the shave goes. Good luck!

 

[Bertilak]

Let us know how the shave goes. Good luck!

The shave went --- so-so.

The blade is, I think plenty sharp but very rough. I got about as good a shave as I generally do but I also have razor burn, a few weepers, and two minor nicks way down low on my neck. It felt pretty rough. I could feel some extra pulling on even the "easy" places -- i.e. the cheek and sideburn areas. I think that's how I got the nicks on my neck -- a little pull and skip of the blade.

I say the blade is sharp because it seemed to shave just as well on my toughest ATG areas, the chin and moustache area.

I think it needs a bunch more passes on the 12K and then a run through the finer pastes on my paddle strop. Maybe some extra, and extra careful, stropping.

I was careful to use the same brush, soap, and general prep routine as I have been for the past week or so.

I was actually a bit surprised that it went as well as it did!

I don't know, maybe it is a bit dull but I'll try the 12K and finer treatments first before going back to the 5K-8K.

 

[leighton]

I recommend more laps on the 8k. I'm a believer in the if it isn't shaving well off the 8k stone, its going to take way more laps on the finishing stone than is worth your time.

 

[adonnellyr]

How many passes on the 4K and 8K would you say you did prior to that first shave? (If you had to guess)

 

[Bertilak]

I recommend more laps on the 8k. I'm a believer in the if it isn't shaving well off the 8k stone, its going to take way more laps on the finishing stone than is worth your time.

You are probably right.

How many passes on the 4K and 8K would you say you did prior to that first shave? (If you had to guess)

I guess somewhere about 30 laps each.

 

[adonnellyr]

I've been doing a lot of reading both her and at SRP on the Nanis, and I would have thought that 30 laps on each would have been sufficient... I took some notes in a word document as I was reading just to have some of the information handy for when I have to use all the hones. From what I put together, my following progression would look something like this (keep in mind that this isn't from experience, just reading posts by others).

1K – 25 to 50 laps (or even 100 to 200 until bevel is set, passes thumb nail test)
3K – 25 to 50 laps
5K – 25 to 50 laps (pass hair test)
8K – 25 to 50 laps (should be a polished shave sharp here)
12K – 10 to 50 laps

I don't know if this helps at all, but I'm planning on just running through that, and if I shave the slightest bit of extra metal off, I don't care. My razors will last me longer than I'll ever need. Hopefully they'll be sharp after that progression.

Also, I read that the Nanis can be used with the pyramid progression, but I saw some posts favouring the straight upward hone progression. Might be something to that...

 

[ZethLent]

I've been doing a lot of reading both her and at SRP on the Nanis, and I would have thought that 30 laps on each would have been sufficient... I took some notes in a word document as I was reading just to have some of the information handy for when I have to use all the hones. From what I put together, my following progression would look something like this (keep in mind that this isn't from experience, just reading posts by others).

1K – 25 to 50 laps (or even 100 to 200 until bevel is set, passes thumb nail test)
3K – 25 to 50 laps
5K – 25 to 50 laps (pass hair test)
8K – 25 to 50 laps (should be a polished shave sharp here)
12K – 10 to 50 laps

I don't know if this helps at all, but I'm planning on just running through that, and if I shave the slightest bit of extra metal off, I don't care. My razors will last me longer than I'll ever need. Hopefully they'll be sharp after that progression.

Also, I read that the Nanis can be used with the pyramid progression, but I saw some posts favouring the straight upward hone progression. Might be something to that...

Excellent info!!

I myself use the Naniwa Chosera hones and the above is ussually the range I am in for each step.

I also never do the pyramid prgression as I don't think Naniwa's overhone.

I also think that a combination of these hones and lapping film, if you need it (i.e. 0.5 and 0.3), gives a very very keen edge.

But as Leighton said, the bevel setting is essential of a very fine shaving razor.

 

[professorchaos]

I've been doing a lot of reading both her and at SRP on the Nanis, and I would have thought that 30 laps on each would have been sufficient... I took some notes in a word document as I was reading just to have some of the information handy for when I have to use all the hones. From what I put together, my following progression would look something like this (keep in mind that this isn't from experience, just reading posts by others).

1K – 25 to 50 laps (or even 100 to 200 until bevel is set, passes thumb nail test)
3K – 25 to 50 laps
5K – 25 to 50 laps (pass hair test)
8K – 25 to 50 laps (should be a polished shave sharp here)
12K – 10 to 50 laps

I don't know if this helps at all, but I'm planning on just running through that, and if I shave the slightest bit of extra metal off, I don't care. My razors will last me longer than I'll ever need. Hopefully they'll be sharp after that progression.

Also, I read that the Nanis can be used with the pyramid progression, but I saw some posts favouring the straight upward hone progression. Might be something to that...

Those numbers are in the ball park for average razors. To address the non-average razor that will cross your hones sooner or later, it behooves you to to observe how the razor behaves on the hones as the lap count increases. I have noticed that as you start out on any given hone, the edge will push whatever water is on the hone ahead of it. As the hone does its work, the edge will begin to slip under the water. (This behavior is very easy to distinguish if a slight slurry has accumulated.) Next you should notice that as the razor slips under the water, the water/slurry eddies on the surface of the razor. At this point I start counting and do 20 more laps.

While watching how the edge behaves on the hone, you should also pay close attention to how it feels. As it removes scratches from the razor's edge, it will "grab," for lack of a better word, less and less.

Of course all this is dependent on the most important aspect of honing a razor: setting a good bevel. Until the razor convincingly (no cheating!) passes the TNT, keep it on your bevel setting stone.

 

[Bertilak]

Wow -- lots of good info!

Looks like my problem may be that I under-honed just a bit.

BUT: I shave at night and noticed that this AM (13 hrs later) I still had BBS except for just beneath my bottom lip so despite the discomfort of the shave I did get good results.

But the roughness could easily be from under honing at the 5K or 8K level -- 13K honing will not fix that, I don't think.

Well, it is back to a work day (M-F) so I may not have enough free time to get to this for a bit -- I will shave with my other razors for a bit until I get some free time. Early in the week is often hard on me work-wise. Various status meetings that require me to check many things to be sure I have a good handle on where we are in our project. Then the meetings themselves an drag out.

 

[adonnellyr]

Those numbers are in the ball park for ...

Thanks for the information Henry! This is a really great description that I hadn't run across yet. I see people always mentioning that one should "watch and listen" as one hones, but was never really sure what to look for. Now, when you say that you will notice the edge begin to slip under the water, is it a VERY minimal portion that has gone under, so it would take a keen eye to notice? Or will it be a fair amount slipping under that should be easily discernible?

 

[leighton]

I guess somewhere about 30 laps each.

I take it back. You might need to go back down to the 4k level.

My progression is this:

1k: Until done. Very important step. Do not pass "Go" if this is not done.
4k: (Well, 5k in my case) 40 laps (30 done in circles to save time)
8k: 10-15 laps, usually 10 unless its stainless or troublesome
12k: 10 laps
.5 micron: 15 laps (I can probably do less but 5 more laps isn't too much and its pretty consistent for me)