Raising a tomonagura slurry with very hard stones

[duderdo]

Hi All,

I recently got a Wakasa hone and have been playing around with it. I immediately fell in love with the feel of it, very smooth and buttery. It works great with my regular nagura progression up until the tomonagura.

The problem is that it's very, very hard. I received a matching Wakasa tomonagura that seems to be just as hard, and as a result raising a slurry seems next to impossible. With a whole lot of elbow grease I was able to raise a very light slurry, and the shave was very good, but I have a feeling if I could raise a regular-thin slurry like I do with my Nakayama it might even surpass it as my main finisher. But I haven't been able to get to that stage, because if I use less pressure the stone just dries out (or if I add drops of water it runs off the sides as quickly as I can raise the little amount that I can), or if I increase the pressure I start to get larger particles that end up gouging my edge.

I also have an Oozuku tomonagura that I use to raise a slurry with my Nakayama, but I got *nothing* from it. Either pure suction or skimming around.

What are my options? I know that adding grooves to the Tomo is a crapshoot that might end up with particles that slough off, so I'm reluctant to try.

 

[Drybonz]

I have a couple tomo that stuck to the stones pretty badly, so I put some light grooves in them. If you put light grooves and it doesn't work out, you can always lap them out without too much trouble.

 

[Kentos]

I don't know if its "kosher" but raising the tomonagura onto a corner edge and lightly running it up and down works well for me. The downside is it can scratch the main stone if you use too much pressure. YMMV

 

[Drybonz]

I tend to get very faint scratches on my hardest stones from the tomo. It doesn't take much pressure to scratch them.

 

[blackman]

I have this problem with my Asagi. It is impossible to raise a slurry on it. I did scratch it up trying to raise a slurry. I've just come to accept that my tomo won't get the job done. I think I'll be ordering a dmt card soon.

 

[Disburden]

Just use a Diamond plate, it works fine.

 

[Obiwan]

Just use a Diamond plate, it works fine.

+1. I have a well work DMT 1200 credit card I use for this very purpose. Works well.

 

[Gamma]

A few thoughts.

1- Use a softer Tomo.
2- Try soaking the Tomo you have first.
3- Round one edge of your Tomo, use a light rocking motion to generate slurry. Same as lifting one side of a squared off piece without the danger of scratching.

 

[AjaxLepinski]

Glad I saw this thread... I'm taking my new Ozuku out for it's first spin this weekend! I have a matching tomo but, I have no idea what to expect.

 

[mainaman]

Softer tomonagura, or make grooves in your current one.
Best option is softer and very fine tomonagura though.

 

[duderdo]

I don't know if its "kosher" but raising the tomonagura onto a corner edge and lightly running it up and down works well for me. The downside is it can scratch the main stone if you use too much pressure. YMMV

A few thoughts.

1- Use a softer Tomo.
2- Try soaking the Tomo you have first.
3- Round one edge of your Tomo, use a light rocking motion to generate slurry. Same as lifting one side of a squared off piece without the danger of scratching.

Last night I rounded out my Tomo really, really well by lifting it slowly while rubbing it against my DMT325 for each side, and then rounded the corners off as well. I then tried this method and got much better results than I had been, but I'm still a bit worried about errant particles ending up in the slurry-- we'll see. Soaking might have helped a bit, but it will take a few more trials to weed out any placebo effect.

I have a couple tomo that stuck to the stones pretty badly, so I put some light grooves in them. If you put light grooves and it doesn't work out, you can always lap them out without too much trouble.

Softer tomonagura, or make grooves in your current one.
Best option is softer and very fine tomonagura though.

I'll see if I can track down a softer Tomo for sure. In the meantime I'll put grooves in one and see what happens.

I have this problem with my Asagi. It is impossible to raise a slurry on it. I did scratch it up trying to raise a slurry. I've just come to accept that my tomo won't get the job done. I think I'll be ordering a dmt card soon.

Just use a Diamond plate, it works fine.

+1. I have a well work DMT 1200 credit card I use for this very purpose. Works well.

Tonight I used a very worn DMT325 lightly on the top until I had a thin slurry. I proceeded as normal. The slurry broke down much, much faster, and turned a dark grey rather quickly. I only diluted with one drop of water, a few more strokes, strop and the HHT was pretty spotty. Bevel was very hazy and a bit scratchy. I went back and did 30 water only strokes which improved the HHT significantly, which I've never seen on a Jnat (on all of mine water only seems to have either no effect or a slight dulling effect). TPT feels pretty good so I'll give it a quick test shave in the morning.

I'm thinking a finer DMT is the way to go though. After the stone dried, even with very light (as minimal as possible) on a well worn 325 there were pretty deep scratches remaining.

Thanks so much for the suggestions guys, lots of great ideas here.

 

[duderdo]

Any tips for creating grooves in my Tomo? I don't have any files but am open to suggestions for what to buy.

 

[Gamma]

Personally - I think it's a bad idea and that opinion is based on 1st hand experience.
No matter how careful you are, the risk of having a tiny edge chip off into the slurry is present.

 

[mainaman]

Personally - I think it's a bad idea and that opinion is based on 1st hand experience.
No matter how careful you are, the risk of having a tiny edge chip off into the slurry is present.

Agree , but for the time being it will be easier to make slurry. Unfortunately finding a good fine and softer tomonagura is not as easy at may sound.

 

[alx gilmore]

Any tips for creating grooves in my Tomo? I don't have any files but am open to suggestions for what to buy.

Dan
I made a video that shows and explains how to make the grooves in you tomonagura.
Hope this helps, Alx

 

[Gamma]

Agree , but for the time being it will be easier to make slurry. Unfortunately finding a good fine and softer tomonagura is not as easy at may sound.

Well - I never said it would be easy to find one.

But it doesn't have to be all that hard to find one either.

 

[duderdo]

Personally - I think it's a bad idea and that opinion is based on 1st hand experience.
No matter how careful you are, the risk of having a tiny edge chip off into the slurry is present.

Agree , but for the time being it will be easier to make slurry. Unfortunately finding a good fine and softer tomonagura is not as easy at may sound.

You're probably right, but the amount of damage I'm doing to the base stone and the large particles being released as a result can't be much worse. If it doesn't work out I'll just grind the grooves out, the tomo is pretty big so I'm not too worried about losing some of it.

Dan
I made a video that shows and explains how to make the grooves in you tomonagura.
Hope this helps, Alx

Awesome, thanks so much.

 

[Doc226]

Great information on the video Alex, thank you for making it.

 

[mainaman]

You're probably right, but the amount of damage I'm doing to the base stone and the large particles being released as a result can't be much worse. If it doesn't work out I'll just grind the grooves out, the tomo is pretty big so I'm not too worried about losing some of it.



Awesome, thanks so much.

you are not doing any damage to the base stone that is for sure.

 

[duderdo]

Dan
I made a video that shows and explains how to make the grooves in you tomonagura.
Hope this helps, Alx

Great video. I didn't want to spring for a hacksaw so bought a reciprocating saw blade for $4, and it worked great. For the rest I followed your video exactly, and indeed the DMT does a nice job even on the very edge of chamfering the groove.

I'm pretty happy with the results so far. There's still suction, but it's not nearly as bad-- and that is with adding only one groove down the middle of a large Tomo. If I were to add another one across I'm assuming there would be even less suction. No errant particles yet. After thinking about it, adding a groove is only really another way of adding another "side" to the Tomo, so far as a side is a surface where large particles are more likely to flake off. So, in theory, adding a groove increases the risk of large particles in the slurry by only %50-- but decreases the chance of suction (and large particles being released as a result) by an indeterminable amount. Anyway, I'm rambling, thanks again!