Questions- First Ark progression

[MilkCrate]

I currently have a Naniwa progression of: 1k, 5k, 8k & 12k, all are 8x3. I have also picked up an SB from Dan’s that is 8x3x1/2.

This got me thinking about an Ark progression. I know opinions vary, but I’m looking for recommendations on sizes to consider and where to purchase.

Should I consider and 8x2 or even a 6x2?

Should I consider 1/2” or go thicker?

Can I do a soft and hard? Then finish on the SB?

Best budget options? Dan’s, NWS, ebay?

Am I missing anything? Thanks in advance!

 

[Toro Blanco]

It would be hard to beat vintage lily White Washita in the hard/fine category. In betwwen that 1k and SB it would make a good progession. Leave on side finished to 220(sic) and the other side to 400(sic) and it will showcase it's versitility and speed for a natural.
They usually come in the 8×2×1 or 6×2×1.

 

[Rosseforp]

I just picked up a soft, hard, and translucent from Dan's, all 8 x 2 x 1/2 for under $200. I already have an 6 x 2 x 1/2 SB that I got from Best Sharpening Stones than I convexed, but I am thinking of getting an 8 x 2 x 1/2 SB from Dan's. I emailed Dan's first and talked to Kim, and am very happy with the stones they cut for me.

 

[duke762]

I've been doing Ark progressions a few years. That's all I had to work with. If honing hand held 1" stones protect my fingers better. 8" stones give you more real estate to refine your edge. I like 2" stones the best. You are in a good place having water hones to compare scratch patterns with Arks. If bench honing 1/2" stones can save you money.

I have a Dan's regular hard 8x3x1 that's a great stone but I tend to not pay attention to how fast it glazes and stops doing what I want it to do. I have a NWC 8x1x3 that I really don't like and rarely use. I have a stack of Norton and unbranded soft/washita types that get the nod instead of the NWC.

The challenge is going to be to refine the apex enough on the Arks before going to the SB. It can be done but it's not as straight forward as it sounds. It will require surface conditioning of the hones and resurfacing as the stone glazes. I'm always using a Coti or something to get the apex where I want it before finishing. Your mileage will definitely vary.

If it wasn't for Ebay, I wouldn't have very many stones. Patience can yield some gems on the bay.

 

[Rosseforp]

The challenge is going to be to refine the apex enough on the Arks before going to the SB. It can be done but it's not as straight forward as it sounds. It will require surface conditioning of the hones and resurfacing as the stone glazes. I'm always using a Coti or something to get the apex where I want it before finishing. Your mileage will definitely vary.

+1
I agree.
The progression that I used on my last Gold Dollar Mod was, 800 chosera to set the bevel, soft ark raised burr both sides, hard ark, convex coticule, trans, convex SB.
YMMV

 

[MilkCrate]

The challenge is going to be to refine the apex enough on the Arks before going to the SB. It can be done but it's not as straight forward as it sounds. It will require surface conditioning of the hones and resurfacing as the stone glazes. I'm always using a Coti or something to get the apex where I want it before finishing. Your mileage will definitely vary.

So to resurface and recondition when glazed, that would be using sic! What grits would I use, just a 600?

 

[global_dev]

The challenge is going to be to refine the apex enough on the Arks before going to the SB. It can be done but it's not as straight forward as it sounds. It will require surface conditioning of the hones and resurfacing as the stone glazes

how fast is your hard ark glazing in terms of some measurement?(strokes, razors, etc) especially bridging the 3000-7000k realm of honing... which is what i am trying to do

 

[duke762]

This is Gamma's answer to my question I posted on the Washita thread pg. 4. This says it all!

Depends. Good washita are extremely friable and I don't spend time trying to maintain a certain RA past making sure it cuts evenly. In other words, when it clogs in spots, I clear.

After flattening with SIC, I usually lap Washita with a 140 Atoma regularly to keep the top clear and free of sludge/swarf. I 'might' consider using the 400x plate on a harder/finer example, but rarely.

Soft Arks are all over the place - many new soft Arks are so inconsistent across the stone that I don't bother worrying about the surface; lapping one end to 400x will be totally different at the other end. Very HQ soft Arks, like Nortons pure-white 8x2s usually get lapped to 200x on SIC. During use I"ll use the 140x Atome to clear and rejuvenate. If the cutting is irregular then I'll try the 400x. If I need a finer cut I'll use a harder Ark or move to synthetics.

A lot depends on what I'm sharpening and the stone in question.
Softer coarser Washita are way different than the harder finer types and using them for knives/tools or razors sorta dictates which stone, and how the surface would be in an ideal world.

I don't get too fussy with cutlery at the early stages. Razors are another story and I usually only use one particular Washita for straights, and then I skip soft Arks entirely and bounce right to a hard Ark. That's if I am committed to an Ark progression - and that's usually not the case. Right at this moment I don't even have a soft Ark in the 'kit' because it's non-essential at the moment.

For cutlery that is totally toast and in need of a complete edge reprofile, I start off with a 120 synth, then a Washita. I usually don't care too much about which Washita I use at this point; basically, I am only taking off the massive burr I made on the 120x and then polishing a little bit. If I decide to go further with the edge, I might go to a soft Ark, but I'll probably go to a synth 500x. I might choose a hard Ark if I want more polish, or I might go a different route .

Basically, in a nutshell, after much testing and comparing, I've found that a consistently surfaced stone is more important than what grit it was lapped to. Pressure/force rules the cutting action for me. My hardest stones never get lapped past 600x and the softer stones never see finer than 400x, and usually it's more like 140-200x. I did recently take a Translucent a bit higher than 600x, and while it looks nice, objectively, the scope shows that it didn't improve anything.

Yes my Dan's hard glazes and starts losing refinement ability after .....3 to 5 honing sessions? It really surprised me. Felt like it was doing ok but under magnification and finishing it obviously didn't get the job done with the way I was using it. Could just be me. Works fine after refreshing the surface. I couldn't trust it by feel alone. I found a Coticule to be a more reliable solution.

 

[MilkCrate]

Apologies, in my last post that ”!” should have been a “?”

 

[Rosseforp]

Kim Kirschman from Dan's sent me this ---------->

You can use water on the stone if you wish as well. Just beware that over time the metal can build up. I have been hearing that some people have been using a squirt of Plain Dawn dish soap in the water while they are honing to help lubricate the stone or Simple Green has been used as well. Depending how much you will be sharpening – will depend on how fast the metal may build up on the stone. If you notice that it is not cutting like had – then you can take a piece of sandpaper that you can get moistened with water – wet/dry sandpaper around 220 grit – mount it to a flat surface like a piece of wood or a piece of glass – then rub the stone over the surface of the sandpaper or sandpaper over the surface of the stone – this will help to freshen up the surface for you. Beware that it may take some time touching up the surface of the Arkansas stones. Like I like to share with customers – it will take a little bit of elbow grease to surface this stone but it can be done. Again make sure the stone is good and dry before returning to the carrying case. If you feel that you are able to resurface the stone – we do offer resurfacing process on the stones. There is a fee for doing this service – and you would need to pay the applicable shipping charges to our office and back to you.

 

[Earcutter]

Bigger is better, get 8” stones.

Get a soft too, it’s the cheapest of them all.

Dans has never sold me a rock I haven’t loved.