Question about pre-shave, post-shave oils and creams

[tinpanalley]

I've gotten some great advice and info here before so I thought I'd ask this here instead of just in stores which tends to simply be one experience after another of shops trying to sell me their product rather than listening to what I'm saying.

I have extraordinarily sensitive skin. I have tried several different pre-shave oils and after shave creams always to the same effect..
The pre shave oils I've used (zirh, art of shaving) I absolutely am convinced not only make it practically impossible to properly adhere the shaving lather to my face but also don't do anything to demonstrably make the razor any more lubricated when touching my face. It feels exactly the same. Of course unless I'm wrong and you're not supposed to actually FEEL any difference, just trust that it's lubricating.
The after shave creams always, always sting and irritate my face. I have gotten all the speeches from different stores about how THIS one is for sensitive skin, THAT one is for people who get burn easily, etc etc. I used one from art of shaving that the salesperson told me was an extreme cream for people who are super super sensitive to after shave products. The one that's engineered to not hurt at all, and within seconds, I was getting irritation and redness. This is not just on my face. The wrong hand cream in winter can cause me to get a rash and stinging. But I'd love to have something other than cold water after my shaves, especially in winter when cold water is less pleasant.

So, two questions..
1. Should I bother with pre-shave oils, gels, etc., are they really doing anything if you usually have to rinse them off after they're applied, or is this just like several things that are hobbies/rituals where there are accessories that are part of the paraphernalia but are more placebo than anything else. i.e. things everyone does because you're supposed to but don't actually do much. (scammy LED screen cleaning liquids)
2. What can I do about after shave creams? I'm saying creams only because with my skin I don't want to even THINK about going near my face with an alcohol based lotion or liquid. If possible, I'd love it to be sandalwood scented. I've got a shopping basket ready to go with some new Taylor of Old Bond Street sandalwood soap and their after-shave moisturising cream. I'll probably buy that cream but looking for other opinions. I currently use, in case it matters, a moisturising face cream found here in France by Avène. It's brilliant, but kills the sandalwood scent from my shaving soap.

Any and all help would be lovely! Thank you!
(p.s. where is a good place to look for a vintage gillette slim rasor in Europe? Looking for another one.)

 

[BSAGuy]

1. No. I don't see any benefit (for me) of pre-shave oils or creams.

2. Try Nivea Sensitive Skin Post Shave Balm. Nice and soothing. Inexpensive and widely available.

 

[captp]

PSO is not meant to be an additional layer of lubrication under your lather; oils and soaps do not play well together. It's meant to be a conditioner for dry skin, it should be used lightly and we'll rubbed into the skin.
If you're looking for more lubrication, make your lather wetter, i.e. use a little more water when building lather, just a few drops at a time until you get a nice wet, well lubricating lather.
I don't use any kind of aftershave, so can't really answer that, but have you tried a good skin conditioner?
What BSA said above is probably a good suggestion, too.

 

[thompmj]

1. I tried a home made pre-shave oil of olive oil and baby oil. I found that it seemed to make everything sticky. I tried it enough to know it didn't seem to work. Thankfully the ingredients didn't cost me anything. I tried the Noxzema...and it seemed to work really well...but then I got a new razor (Merkur 1904 Classic) and when I stopped using the Noxzema it didn't seem to matter. So what I think it was was just not using the right razor for me. I do put a little water on the top of my soap puck and let it soften while I'm in the shower and lately I've been running my finger around that and then rubbing that on my face (basically concentrated soap). That actually seems to work pretty well....

2. I'll second the NIVEA as pretty good. I also use the Pre de Provence aftershave which is excellent as well (more expensive of course). But prior to putting that on, I always use some Thayer's Alcohol Free Witch Hazel (cucumber only for me). I think it helps. I get it for $10/bottle at my local GNC and it lasts just about 3 months.

Hope that helps.

 

[VirtualAsylum]

Pre shave oil is really a skin protectant/conditioner more than a lubricant for the blade.

I used Shave Secret last night for the first time in a long time since my skin was dry from the cooler weather and I had the best shave of the year, almost the best shave of my life. Far better than the alpha oil I was using.

If my skin wasn't sensitive or dry, I probably would think pre shave oil is useless. But I'll tell you that in my case, that oil was WAY better than proraso pre/post or alpha oil for me. There was no doubt about it.

5 drops rubbed into wet beard before the first pass, 2 more drops rubbed into wet beard before relathering for passes 2 and 3. Exceptional shave with no redness on my neck.

In the summer, I'll just use a little less each pass.

Moral of the story: your unique skin, the product you're using, razor, blade, and environmental conditions may render pre shave useless, or it may be a God send, as it is for me.

You have to try to know. But, if your skin is not sensitive or dry, it's probably true that you may not see much benefit, aside from a little more scent or a menthol tingle.

 

[takeshi]

Should I bother with pre-shave oils, gels, etc.

That's really your call to make. These are not one-size-fits-all matters. Each has to determine what works best for the individual. I don't find them of any use but that doesn't mean that no one finds them to be of any use.

What can I do about after shave creams?

Find one for sensitive skin but stop relying on sales people. Hit the AS subforum and do some research.

 

[CBLindsay]

I have a suggestion regarding the "pre-shave" items and how they can be used to your advantage, assuming they don't cause irritation by themselves. I have had some of the most wonderful shaves doing this little routine and I find it adds some enjoyment to the "hobby" itself.

Sometime before you go to bed wash your beard by lathering shave soap directly onto your face (good practice for face lathering AND how I stumbled on this routine), follow by rinsing with warm. If you feel like doing a hot towel prep and lather, that is optional but feels good this time of year. Follow you wash with an application of your favorite "pre-shave" oil, cream or gel (I have only ever used oil) and let that oil absorb as normal. I like to follow the pre-shave oil with a healthy splash of one of my aftershaves that I have added a bit more glycerin to or witch hazel that I have added menthol and glycerin to, but I find a splash of ANY aftershave I might normally use is acceptable. *I started this routine kind of as a practice run to try out different products and methods without the added insult of blade against skin. The result of doing this is a beard/skin that has been exfoliated and conditioned then allowed to rest overnight prior to being shaved. I found that by morning my beard growth seemed more even and scruffier almost as if I skipped a day shaving (which for me always gives a smoother shave). I would then proceed with a normal shaving routine following a shower or proper face wash in the morning.

As far as aftershave stuff goes. I have used the Nivea Balm a few time and found it to be pretty good stuff. RazoRock has some balm that, to me, was similar in effect. If irritation is a common thing with aftershave splashes for you, you might reach for the Witch Hazel (I personally don't like the smell and can only use it if I hide the smell with a ton of menthol or some other scented essential oil). You might try adding a few drops of glycerin into your favorite aftershave to see if you get a little better outcome (be careful, adding too much glycerin makes your skin feel "icky").

 

[ackvil]

Pre-shave oil is one of those things that is an individual thing. As you may find out some on B&B think it is a waste of time and others think it helped them get a better shave. Some say it clogs their razor and ruins brushes and some say it does not such thing. Pre-shave oil is one of those things that brings out a lot of controversy. The one thing I have seen, however, is that a light oil works better than a thick one.

In any event there are some things you can do to help with irritation.

First, limit the number of passes you do on your face and neck. The more you go over the same spot the more you increase your irritation.

Second hydration is important to get a lubricating lather. So be sure to have sufficient water in your lather. Also, don't cheat on the product. I have found it helpful to wet my face before each pass. The extra water on my face seems to make my shave smoother.

Irritation usually is caused by poor blade angle and too much pressure on the razor. The neck is a tricky area to shave because keeping the right blade angle and little pressure is a challenge. The usual advice is to let the weight of the razor do the job - not put pressure on the blade. To put that in action I have found that using the two fingers and my thumb to hold the razor with another finger resting on the tip of the handle. This results in holding the razor very lightly with no pressure on the razor. You want to hold the razor as lightly as you can without it falling from your hand. I have found that using the right grip on your razor goes a long way in keeping pressure off of the blade. This post may help you. Also, take a look at the wiki.

Also, what you do after you shave can help with any irritation problem. I soak a wash cloth in cold water and put in on my face for about 30 seconds. Next I apply a splash of Thayers Rose Petal or Lavender WH. Any WH will work and will provide soothing relief. I then use a skin moisturizer or ASB to provide relief. There are a number of good products out there such as Nivea, Neutrogena, T&H, GFT, and others. Another good one that is not meant only for shaving but does an excellent job is CeraVe Facial Moisturizing Lotion. Also, at night I put on a moisturizer – usually CeraVe – and that hastens the healing process and prepares my face for the next day’s shave.

 

[Snorlax]

Pre-shave oil is one of those things that is an individual thing. As you may find out some on B&B think it is a waste of time and others think it helped them get a better shave. Some say it clogs their razor and ruins brushes and some say it does not such thing. Pre-shave oil is one of those things that brings out a lot of controversy. The one thing I have seen, however, is that a light oil works better than a thick one.

In any event there are some things you can do to help with irritation.

First, limit the number of passes you do on your face and neck. The more you go over the same spot the more you increase your irritation.

Second hydration is important to get a lubricating lather. So be sure to have sufficient water in your lather. Also, don't cheat on the product. I have found it helpful to wet my face before each pass. The extra water on my face seems to make my shave smoother.

Irritation usually is caused by poor blade angle and too much pressure on the razor. The neck is a tricky area to shave because keeping the right blade angle and little pressure is a challenge. The usual advice is to let the weight of the razor do the job - not put pressure on the blade. To put that in action I have found that using the two fingers and my thumb to hold the razor with another finger resting on the tip of the handle. This results in holding the razor very lightly with no pressure on the razor. You want to hold the razor as lightly as you can without it falling from your hand. I have found that using the right grip on your razor goes a long way in keeping pressure off of the blade. This post may help you. Also, take a look at the wiki.

Also, what you do after you shave can help with any irritation problem. I soak a wash cloth in cold water and put in on my face for about 30 seconds. Next I apply a splash of Thayers Rose Petal or Lavender WH. Any WH will work and will provide soothing relief. I then use a skin moisturizer or ASB to provide relief. There are a number of good products out there such as Nivea, Neutrogena, T&H, GFT, and others. Another good one that is not meant only for shaving but does an excellent job is CeraVe Facial Moisturizing Lotion. Also, at night I put on a moisturizer – usually CeraVe – and that hastens the healing process and prepares my face for the next day’s shave.

+1

 

[1holegrouper]

Normally I would suggest Proraso pre-shave but in your case I would avoid it. 1) I think the key for you is finding a shaving soap that your skin can tolerate (unscented and the fewest ingredients possible)- you just need to keep looking- my guess is the non-tallow soaps would work best. 2) look at your brush. Is it soft? Are you only painting on the lather? Using a brush to exfoliate is a myth as the process of shaving itself is the ultimate exfoliater and thus cancels out any brush exfoliation benefit. 3) I would also look at your shaving routine. Can you get by with shaving every other day? Or less? 4) you mentioned cold rinse but I would suggest cold shaving from beginning to end. That is; warm/normal shower (don't make the mistake of shaving without first taking a shower with your skin's condition)>cold rinse, cold soaked brush, cold rinsed razor, cold rinse, etc. 5) Nivia balm- there is no better option for very sensitive skin 6) Don't touch your face during the day whatsoever.

Before all of that you might want to take the advantage of the upcoming holidays to give your face a shaving break and let it heal.

 

[Snorlax]

Normally I would suggest Proraso pre-shave but in your case I would avoid it. 1) I think the key for you is finding a shaving soap that your skin can tolerate (unscented and the fewest ingredients possible)- you just need to keep looking- my guess is the non-tallow soaps would work best. 2) look at your brush. Is it soft? Are you only painting on the lather? Using a brush to exfoliate is a myth as the process of shaving itself is the ultimate exfoliater and thus cancels out any brush exfoliation benefit. 3) I would also look at your shaving routine. Can you get by with shaving every other day? Or less? 4) you mentioned cold rinse but I would suggest cold shaving from beginning to end. That is; warm/normal shower (don't make the mistake of shaving without first taking a shower with your skin's condition)>cold rinse, cold soaked brush, cold rinsed razor, cold rinse, etc. 5) Nivia balm- there is no better option for very sensitive skin 6) Don't touch your face during the day whatsoever.

Before all of that you might want to take the advantage of the upcoming holidays to give your face a shaving break and let it heal.

Definitely agree with the cold water shave. Helped reduce a good amount of irritation I was getting on my neck. Also free to try.

 

[tinpanalley]

Definitely agree with the cold water shave. Helped reduce a good amount of irritation I was getting on my neck. Also free to try.

Hmm... interesting. What is it that's happening with cold water as opposed to warm and why is the general accepted knowledge saying to use warm water?

 

[tinpanalley]

Everyone has said tremendously helpful and interesting things, so replying to everyone individually would be lengthy.

I have really thick facial hair and extremely sensitive skin. Between a rock and a hard place would be an improvement for me. Not to say a vintage gillette, feather blades and proper shaving soaps haven't improved the shaves I used to get before caring more for my shaving. You should have seen the disasters that Mach 5s and alcohol based gels used to do to my face before I knew what the hell I was doing. And I wasn't even 15 either which makes it even more embarassing that I went through years of adulthood butchering my face. One day, I just said, 'like pretty much everything else I enjoy, music, film, cooking, etc etc the older ways have got to be better'. So then I found DE shaving and soaps and brushes and I've never looked back. That was several years ago. But products and products and more products have taught me that I simply DON'T have what can be called normal skin.

So, tough hairs and sensitive skin. I can not get a clean shave without three passes. Two, and I have most people's evening stubble. But to do three passes, I have to be really gentle. Like, detonating a bomb gentle. Ok, I'm exaggerating. But I have to think on every swipe, "careful... you've got about two more passes on that patch of skin at least". Any blade, even these Feathers, start to tug and bite after three shaves. I can not shave every day. I can only shave every other day and even then, if there's a particularly bad shave, I need to give it an extra day rest. I usually skip an additional day every two weeks just to give my skin a break.

Added info? I eat extremely well. I have very good skin. I hydrate well. One thing that's helped is washing my face and using a moisturiser every day morning and night. I am convinced all of this is one of the reasons I shock people when I tell them I'm 38. Other than a slightly receding hairline, most people think I look late 20s. So, in case anyone thought, he must eat crap and his face is all dry and full of blemishes and zits; nope, that ain't the case.

Anyway, I like what I've researched about Taylor's of Old Bond Street. I'll be getting their soap, their moisturising cream not the aftershave cream, and I'm getting an alum block by Shavex to add to the styptic pen arsenal. I watched an Executive Shaving video today where the guy who runs the shop said to shave only with warm water not hot because that causes skin problems. I always used water closer to hot. Facecloth with hot water on my face and always wondered, this feels like it's drying my skin not softening it. Granted this wasn't scalding hot but hot like a facecloth at a barber. My shave was great. But I'd love sandalwood scent when I'm done and not the generic cream scent of the Avène face moisturiser I use now after I shave.

Don't know what else to tell you guys but that's the annoying reality of shaving to me. And before you ask: I can't stand facial hair, so I won't leave it grown.

 

[rabidus]

I use a homemade oil, it's lighter than AOS preshave oil. It's 3oz of Almond, 2oz of caster and 2tsp of lemon oil. I use it everyday. It keeps my skin soft. It never clogs my razor.

 

[Downing]

I think a good pre-shave oil should not only help with lubrication and protection but should condition the skin as well. I have a rotation of three, The Gentlemens Refinery, Village Barber and Crown Shaving Co, and use one of them use one every day, mostly for the conditioning.

Sounds like you're a balm guy. Both GR and VB make excellent, soothing balms and Brooklyn Grooming's tonic is also excellent.

None of these products are cheap but are all well worth it imho. After all, you only have one face.

And you may want to change your blade every day, although some people swear they get better shaves the second time around.

Good on ya for moisturizing every day. As you know, that's an enormous benefit to your skin.

 

[CBLindsay]

COLD WATER: It works (it just does) the warm water wash and prep does the job at getting things ready to go but a cold rinse and proceeding with cold water for the remainder of the shave provides a very pleasurable shave. (note that some soaps reject the COLD water so you may need to whip up your lather with the hot/warm water-it will cool after you whip it up).

ALUM: It will sting EVERY time. Don't let anyone tell you that it is "giving you feed back on areas you shaved too close", if you have sensitive skin it will sting and if you get an ammonia based one like I have (the old anti-perspiring kind) it will burn like hell-fire. But it does the job. You may want to plan to apply it after your last rinse, then rinse it off after it has been on a minute or two. Some people report it makes them itchy if it is left on. I don't have an issue myself.


FEATHER BLADES: Sharp yes, long lasting no. three shaves on a tough beard is not unusual. The gents over on the Excalibur thread have achieved much greater usage by improving their technique all around. Another good (and affordable) blade is the simple Personna Lab Blue.
COARSE BEARD: I too have a coarse beard (although I think as I turn more gray I might be developing a mixed beard) and have found that a little longer prep makes a huge difference. If you have access to Williams Mug soap at your local drug store, grab some and use it as a pre-wash. It works really well as a wash to clean and hydrate the beard without drying out your skin AND you can leave it on and lather your other soaps on top of it to get the most incredible slickness ever. It is a great shave soap in its own right but you really don't need the headache of trying to learn to lather it, just use it as a pre-wash.

Last thought: go back to basics and keep it simple. Hydrate the hairs, prepare a good lather and work it into the beard a bit, use a blade & razor you are comfortable with and use good technique. Look to some of the regulars here on B&B for wisdom, they have some good experience to draw from.

Good luck.
EDIT:I was going to offer to send you a few blades and Williams mug soap then I noticed you are IN PARIS, shipping would be 10X the value of these cheap items.

 

[TexLaw]

You've received a ton of excellent advice that I will not go back over. I'll add, though, that Stirling makes excellent soaps and alcohol free balms in a variety of scents (and also unscented). Thayer's also has alcohol-free witch hazel (in a variety of scents or unscented).

Someone mentioned TOBS soaps. While TOBS makes fine creams, I understand that their soaps leave much to be desired. I'd steer clear of TOBS soaps.

 

[_Brad]

This may actually be a technique problem, I'd check your grip, and angle of the razor.

If you're reacting to ingredients in the products, and that happens to me, you want to cut down on the number of ingredients and products you may be reacting to. I don't have a lot of soaps, but Stirling's unscented is pretty basic. And you don't need a balm or aftershave, just a mild disinfectant like alum and/or witch hazel followed by moisturizer. Cetaphil moisturizer works well for me, and I'll even use it as a preshave sometimes since it's really good at hydrating the beard. Ignore "sensitive skin" labels, that seems to be mostly marketing.

 

[tinpanalley]

Someone mentioned TOBS soaps. While TOBS makes fine creams, I understand that their soaps leave much to be desired. I'd steer clear of TOBS soaps.

Goodness, that's the total opposite of what I've heard. I've heard their soaps are among the best. Regardless, these things are only as good or as bad as their effectiveness for each person's shave.

 

[TexLaw]

Goodness, that's the total opposite of what I've heard. I've heard their soaps are among the best. Regardless, these things are only as good or as bad as their effectiveness for each person's shave.

DRH soaps are excellent, as are their creams. However, when it comes to the "T" guys (TOBS, Truefitt & Hill, and Trumper's), you're better off sticking with their creams.