Price as an Indicator of Wine Quality

[DonLafontaine]

The New York Times Opinion Page has an article by one of the authors of Freakonomics in which he asserts, in essence, that one's perception of the quality of a wine is directly influenced by a knowledge of the price of that wine. He references a researcher on the subject and makes the following observation:

"One of these researchers is Robin Goldstein, whose paper detailing more than 6,000 blind tastings reaches the conclusion that “individuals who are unaware of the price do not derive more enjoyment from more expensive wine.”

I don't know whether this assertion holds true over all individuals who taste wine, but it's always bothered me that wine critics always know the name and price of the wines they are rating (i.e., it's not blind tasting). The critic will always know that he or she is tasting a Screaming Eagle presided over by Heidi Barrett, for example, and that reputation precedes itself ... how can it not?

So, what do you think?


http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.c...ensive-wines-taste-better/?src=me&ref=general

 

[ackvil]

I along with 25 other persons did a blind wine tasting at a local wine store. Before the tasting each of us put down our favorite wines in the two categories we were tasting. I was in the group of Merlot and Cabernet.

In the first round of tasting we did not see the bottles of the wines we were drinking since decanters were used. In the second, the bottle and price tag were on display. Most of us did not pick the highest price wine when we did not see the bottle or price - but did pick that one when we saw the bottles.

I have seen numerous instances where people become wine snobs and only think a high priced wine is a quality wine. As for me, I love to find a small winery and discover that wine without regard to price.

 

[bogey97]

I don't think this is necessarily true. My wife and I play a game where one of us will pick up a bottle of wine for dinner, and the other will try to guess how much we paid for it. We can usually come within $10 of the actual price, unless that particular bottle was badly mispriced (either high or low). It's always a treat to find a $20 bottle of wine that tastes like a $40 bottle.

That being said, I think there is a point of diminishing returns. Once you get past about $80, I have trouble telling the difference. I think at that point the market drives up the price because of the rarity of the wine, not necessarily the quality. Also, there are some producers that just have a reputation (like Opus One), so they can get away with charging more for their wines than they are really worth.

 

[Commander Quan]

My wife and I play a game where one of us will pick up a bottle of wine for dinner, and the other will try to guess how much we paid for it. We can usually come within $10 of the actual price, unless that particular bottle was badly mispriced (either high or low). It's always a treat to find a $20 bottle of wine that tastes like a $40 bottle.

It wouldn't be hard to be +- $10 in my house If you said 13.95.

 

[RF1963]

Here in NZ I buy on the basis that a $25 NZ bottle of wine is likely to be superior to a $25 French/Italian/Aus/Calif bottle of wine simply because the home grown doesn't have transport cost and import duties attached to it. It's a useful rule of thumb. An example is this year's Beaujolais Nouveau that cost nearly $40 a bottle; it wasn't a bad wine but I could, and did, spend that $40 to better effect.

(All prices in NZD btw)

 

[benvh]

I think you should go buy a $500 bottle and see how close she comes!

I don't think this is necessarily true. My wife and I play a game where one of us will pick up a bottle of wine for dinner, and the other will try to guess how much we paid for it. We can usually come within $10 of the actual price, unless that particular bottle was badly mispriced (either high or low). It's always a treat to find a $20 bottle of wine that tastes like a $40 bottle.

 

[Doc4]

"All wine is the same, and differences in price are just a measure of how good the marketers are in tricking us to spend more than $10/bottle."

... um, maybe.

I think you should go buy a $500 bottle and see how close she comes!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evyrJkWMTUg&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ackvil]

An individual I know invited my wife and me to his house for dinner. There were a total of six of us there when he produced as one of his wines a bottle of 2004 Chateau Margaux Margaux. I knew this was a fine wine and was anxious to try it. We all agreed it was very nice. It was not until I priced the wine a few weeks later that I realized how expensive it was. I saw that there were a few bottles of the wine in the liquor store I frequent - and they were under lock and key. When I asked the manager the price I was shocked to learn it was about $500 a bottle. Now the wine was good - but quite honestly I did not think it was that good to warrant the $500 price. In fact, on a trip to CA I purchased a bottle of Sterling Three Palms Merlot - I don't recall the vintage - for less than $50 and I thought it was better than the Chateau Margaux Margaux. So, yes, often it is not only the quality of the wine that determines price, but as bogey97 said, but the rarity of it.

 

[ouch]

An individual I know invited my wife and me to his house for dinner. There were a total of six of us there when he produced as one of his wines a bottle of 2004 Chateau Margaux Margaux.

When a great wine is very young, it will often show what is known as "the fruit of youth", and can be quite tasty, if not complex. After the brief initial period it may go into a dumb stage, where it may not show well for years or even decades.

A 2004 Ch. Margaux, or any first growth of that vintage for that matter, should not be opened for at least several more years. So you may have had a very good wine, but you also may have missed an opportunity to taste an even greater one.

 

[Edcculus]

I have neither the money, time, knowledge or space for buying and properly cellaring expensive or rare wines. I wouldn't know when to drink them, and probably wouldn't appreciate them. Therefore, I stick to sub $20 table wines. In the end, at least for my family and I, wine isn't some snooty drink we pride ourselves in drinking and knowing about. Its something to share around the table with food and family.

I also delight in the fact that I can buy some of the best beer in the world, like Rodenbach Grand Cru and Cantillon for under $20 a bottle!

 

[Greglam]

I don't think this is necessarily true. My wife and I play a game where one of us will pick up a bottle of wine for dinner, and the other will try to guess how much we paid for it. We can usually come within $10 of the actual price, unless that particular bottle was badly mispriced (either high or low). It's always a treat to find a $20 bottle of wine that tastes like a $40 bottle.

It wouldn't be hard to be +- $10 in my house If you said 13.95.

Yeah, no offense, but, "+/- $10", i.e. a $20 range, isn't actually all discerning, particularly for wines under $100/bottle. Think about it, if you guess "this is a $10/bottle" and it was actually $20, you were off by 100%! Or if you guess $40 and it was $30 you were wrong by 25%.

Those wines in the "teens", i.e. $13-$19/bottle are particularly tricky. At the lower end of the scale, e.g. $13-$15/bottle, you can typically get a bottle just as good for $9-$12/bottle and at the middle to higher end of the scale, you can spend just a few more dollars, e.g. $21-$25 and get a much better bottle.

To the OP's point, a lot of times people "drink the label" in that the name or growing region greatly influences their perception of what it is they are drinking. Just remember, those wine makers "you've heard of" have had to PAY to make sure you've heard of them, and that price is reflected in the bottle price whereas a much less well-known vintner can actually be putting better quality product in the bottle, esp in the lower price range, for a lot less money.

Again, it's a matter of educating yourself and, ideally, buying from a wine shop with knowledgeable staff.

In vino veritas!

-Greg

 

[ouch]

I have neither the money, time, knowledge or space for buying and properly cellaring expensive or rare wines. I wouldn't know when to drink them, and probably wouldn't appreciate them. Therefore, I stick to sub $20 table wines. In the end, at least for my family and I, wine isn't some snooty drink we pride ourselves in drinking and knowing about. Its something to share around the table with food and family.

I also delight in the fact that I can buy some of the best beer in the world, like Rodenbach Grand Cru and Cantillon for under $20 a bottle!

Perhaps no other field (shaving?) has been overcomplicated as much as wine. You can get a truly great inexpensive wine that will be better than a legendary name costing twenty times as much. A good, simple wine, served with decent food and good company, is an easy to accomplish yet hard to surpass goal.

 

[Thebigspendur]

Most folks can tell the difference between wines within a variety but couldn't tell you why they like one over the other. The experts would tell you, you have to have an educated tongue to appreciate the expensive stuff and it's complexities of taste. No different than other gourmet products or even coffee for that matter. Whatever the justification I would never spend large amounts for these products.

 

[RobAtSGH]

Price is determined by demand and scarcity, pure and simple. Sometimes that demand is driven by quality, sometimes it's driven purely by reputation and marketing. A good wine for which there is plenty available will still go for reasonable prices. A bad wine from a small producer may be more expensive. This is where you get price confusion.

For instance, a smaller producer with a higher overhead may have to charge $25 a bottle minimum just to stay alive. And if the wine's mediocre, a good wine from a producer with a price advantage, either in overhead or in economies of scale, can come in under $20 and blow the more expensive bottle away.

I've had disappointing bottles of $50-100 wine. I've had $15 bottles that have been fantastic. Even then, it comes down to your palate and your tastes. If you hate Chardonnay, then even expensive Grand Cru Batard-Montrachet will not satisfy you.

My advice - drink what you like, pay what you're willing for the experience, and let the snobbery be damned. If your favorite tipple is $150 a bottle Bordeaux, great. If it's a $20 Australian Shiraz, that's fantastic too.

 

[npsarros]

I can definitely tell a $25 bottle of wine from 2 buck chuck, but once we leave the $25 range it is hard for me to discern which is a more expensive wine.

There are really wonderful wines in the $20 range and some real crap in the $40 range

I am happy with the 25-40 range. I never pay more for any wine!!!

 

[ouch]

My buddy just dropped off a $4 bottle of Merlot he says is a killer. Normally, when someone makes such a suggestion I simply crack the bottle over their skull, but I give a lot of weight to anyone who has a better cellar than I do. We've had '61 Cheval Blanc together, as well as more famous names than I can remember, so I take his opinion seriously. If my next post doesn't have the word alzheimer's in it, you'll know it was good.

 

[rm71]

I have neither the money, time, knowledge or space for buying and properly cellaring expensive or rare wines. I wouldn't know when to drink them, and probably wouldn't appreciate them. Therefore, I stick to sub $20 table wines. In the end, at least for my family and I, wine isn't some snooty drink we pride ourselves in drinking and knowing about. Its something to share around the table with food and family.

+1.
I'm no wine snob and generally won't spend more than $20 max for a bottle of wine ( alot of Australian wine is ridicously cheap and good).