Old/adjustable aggressiveness

[oxford1833]

The Gillette Old Type seems to have a reputation for aggressiveness, and my experience certainly backs that up. Regardless of blade, I simply cannot get a comfortable shave with it. My chosen weapon is an adjustable (I prefer the Fat Boy to the Slim) set to 7 or 8. The gap wiki doesn't list an Old Type, but shows adjustable 7-8 setting as 38-41 thousandths of an inch. I can't imagine that the Old Type has a larger gap, so what makes it so aggressive?

 

[santamariasteve]

As I remember three things (at least) determine the aggressiveness of a safety razor: How far the blade extends out; the size of gap under the blade; and the overall weight of the razor.

I would think a Fat Boy set on 8 would be more aggressive than a Gillette Old Type, but then everyone's beard and technique is different.

I have a 1909 Old Type and a 1920 Old Type. And I have a Fat Boy. I shave with Feather blades. I use the Fat Boy set at 5. The two Old Types shave similar, though the comb on the 1909 seem a little more pointed and not quite as comfortable as the 1920. But the difference is tiny and barely detectable.

 

[woodfluter]

Just my perspective, and you'll hear different views. But here's what I think:

(1) The blade gap is often cited because it's fairly easy to measure, but by itself it means almost nothing.

(2) Depending on blade exposure beyond a tangent from head cap to guard or comb, a wider gap can make a razor seem more "aggressive", but I think this is mostly because it is less forgiving of changes in angle of attack. For example, I use a low-angle approach; with the Slim Adjustable I started shaving with at age 16 (when this was new!), I presently cannot detect any significant difference between settings 1 and 9. Yeah, for real, no exaggeration. Now if I get careless with angle, 9 gets dangerous but 1 just gets ineffective.

(3) My measurements of blade gap on Old Type razors, done with field microscope equipped with a reticle, is around 0.15 mm. For comparison, an adjustable Gillette at "1" is 0.47 mm. This suggests why the published gap tables don't include this model. The rest of the geometry can make this razor seem "aggressive". Try it at a lower angle, with the head cap against the face and tipping it downward as little as possible to allow cutting. Per my experience, when done that way it is comparable to the Milord, Senator and 1947 Superspeeds I'm using most of the time these days. Assuming the same technique.

(4) Some will cite instructions and drawings indicating that Gillette didn't intend it to be used that way - at a low angle. In contrast, there's an article about how to shave in the Gillette house publication of that era (saved on a different computer than the laptop I'm using right now) that recommends the technique described above. My guess is that these early Gillettes were marketed to straight razor shavers initially, and they had the chops to hold angles predictably and knew what those should be. Post WWI, they had a crop of newbies who had gotten into shaving during the war and found this more of a challenge...and the progression since then has been toward ever more "forgiving" razors.

(5) The original Gillette design is still a good one! If you persevere and get everything aligned, it will give you excellent shaves. It just demands more attention.

(6) Oh, and razor weight can only make a razor more effective if you shave mostly with one downward pass. That accounts for probably less than 1/4 of my shave. The rest is laterally or upward, where gravity isn't helping a bit. Weight does one thing though - it adds inertia, so the razor feels more stable and less likely to do something unexpected.

 

[Samjax]

Why my Big Fellow Old (1920) shaves as well as it does is somewhat of a mystery - if going by the .14 blade gap. It easily outshaves a good number of my other razors and I would rank at is "moderately aggressive." Certainly not a R41 or a Joris, but more aggressive than my Weber, EJ89, etc...

I agree with the above comments that there is obviously more that goes into the final shave results than just blade gap. The Old is easy to get the proper angle with, has excellent feedback and for me, the Big Fellow feels great in the hand.

 

[oxford1833]

Good thoughts. Thanks, all.

 

[raposo III]

Iuse 60 days a fatboy and one futur(fat at 4 two passes) and futur at 3 two passes.looks loke the same thing.
This morning i used a muhle r 41 grande,wow,most diferent,dangerous,but efective,derby blade free with de de.
I loved muhle r41.no important cuts, only few ,no blood.
After shave floid splash,wowowowow, burning....