Obama's Health Plan

[bonusmarple]

I am curious about the opinions on this board, so I added the poll. Personally, I am in favor, mainly due to the removal of the pre-existing condition exemption for insurers. Both my wife and son have asthma, so this strikes close to home. Also, I honestly believe that the cost of health insurance is doing more damage to small business owners than the resulting taxes would do. Just opinions and I am interested in yours.

Lets keep it civil. If you think I am full of sh-t, fine, but no need for a rant.

 

[Dubbya]

Like you, I'm on board because of lowered cost to the self insured and the removal of pre-existing exemptions.

 

[Fnord5]

I predict lock in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1........

 

[TimmyBoston]

Oh gosh.....

Guys please keep in mind all the discussions that we have had lately about civility and discourse here at B&B.

Think before you post.

 

[Dubbya]

I predict lock in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1........

I would hope that we can keep it civil.

Oh gosh.....

Guys please keep in mind all the discussions that we have had lately about civility and discourse here at B&B.

Think before you post.

Yes. Please do. This thread has potential for a great discussion. If we manage to keep that discussion civilized, it could be a wonderful example to others of how to hold a gentlemanly debate.

 

[Fnord5]

I would hope that we can keep it civil.

As do I.
I am all for elimination of pre-existing conditions, for personal reasons not to be discussed...
But overall, a universal healthcare system will tax the people far too much for what little benefit they will gain(Being that the majority of people are healthy, and the tax required to pay for the healthcare of others will be of no benefit to those paying)

 

[PTurchan]

I saw an excellent PBS documentary about health care systems in other countries, I suggest anyone interested take a look:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

 

[norman931]

We've got to have some kind of reform. I don't know if his plan will work, but what we have now is way past dysfunctional.

 

[arcman]

There is a lot to fix with our system, and personally I think because of political obstacles it's going to be very very difficult to make the changes necessary to give us the most efficient and most equitable system, but hopefully we're moving in a more successful direction in terms of reform than we have in the past.


Before I go any further I want to point out some resources that do an excellent job of both laying out our healthcare systems and the systems of other countries, and fleshing them out in depth.

A recent program on the workings of the US's healthcare/insurance system: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundamerica/
And the different healthcare systems of five major democratic developed countries: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

The full programs can be watched on that site, they're both about an hour long, but if you're truly interested in the topic (and the discussion at hand here) it's it's very much worth your while to watch them both.


fake edit: Oh hi, PTurchan!

 

[PTurchan]

Howdy ;-). It was a good show wasn't it?

 

[Obsessed]

I saw an excellent PBS documentary about health care systems in other countries, I suggest anyone interested take a look:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

You gotta love B&B! I was just telling someone today that I'd love to learn more about the health care systems in other countries, as the only ones we ever hear about in comparison to ours are Canada and the U.K.

 

[arcman]

Howdy ;-). It was a good show wasn't it?

Yup!
The new one is too, in a depressing, "Oh God, things are actually this bad" sort of way.

 

[mdunn]

As do I.
I am all for elimination of pre-existing conditions, for personal reasons not to be discussed...
But overall, a universal healthcare system will tax the people far too much for what little benefit they will gain(Being that the majority of people are healthy, and the tax required to pay for the healthcare of others will be of no benefit to those paying)

You would think so, but we have it in Australia, and we're not taxed to the hilt. I was a bit sick recently, and several dr visits and a couple of blood tests and some medicine later I was only out of pocket like $100.

Ill try and find a link, but I was reading a thing recently showing how countries with universal end up cheaper because diagnosis occurs much earlier (because people go to the doctor because its free/cheap, rather than USA where people go to the dr less, and only when symptoms are very serious because of the expense)

 

[PTurchan]

I heard someone refer to our healthcare system as sick care as we have such terrible preventive measures (proper dieting and exercise comes to mind).

 

[MichaelG]

it's still being hammered out by various members of Congress. We don't know what exactly it will be like at this point.

One big point of contention is whether it will include a so called "Public Option," whereby people can choose a government administered health plan in addition to/in competition with private health insurance plans. I'm all for it myself. That's the only way to actually hold down costs.

 

[ogopogo]

I saw an excellent PBS documentary about health care systems in other countries, I suggest anyone interested take a look:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

I've seen this. Very good documentary.

Obama's plan: Better than nothing, it doesn't go far enough in my opinion.

 

[arcman]

As do I.
I am all for elimination of pre-existing conditions, for personal reasons not to be discussed...
But overall, a universal healthcare system will tax the people far too much for what little benefit they will gain(Being that the majority of people are healthy, and the tax required to pay for the healthcare of others will be of no benefit to those paying)

The cost of subsidizing preventative healthcare for the poor is minuscule compared to the cost they incur when they cannot afford to go to the doctor and become so incredibly sick that they require extremely costly emergency care. They're of course unable to pay these gross medical bills, and the cost gets passed around to those of us who pay insurance premiums. The difference between regular preventative care you can get from a GP versus emergency medical treatment is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that's on an individual basis. Subsidizing the cost of healthcare for the poor is of immediate benefit to those paying premiums because of the costs you prevent down the line.

This is one of the main breakdowns of the for-profit insurance systems, because to in order to make the above example profitable, you literally have to let patients who are unable to pay die in the street. If grandma cannot pay her bill, grandma dies. The fact is we are practicing universal healthcare already, we are simply doing it in the worst, most expensive way possible.

 

[TomFox]

Simple fact is we pay way too much for health care. In 2008, we spent 17% of GDP on health care. By 2017, if nothing changes, it is projected that we will be spending 20% of GDP on health care. This percentage is likely to increase indefinitely.

Health care spending accounted for 10.9% of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7% in Germany, 9.7% in Canada and 9.5% in France.

Half of our health care spending is already done by the government...........

Therefore, we are being taxed at practically the same percent of GDP to pay for health care as those previously mentioned nations with universal coverage, but unless you are old, destitute, or a vet, you still have to pay for all of your health care, be it out of pocket, to the insurance corporations, or benefits from your employer that could just as well be personal income.

It's shocking that Americans haven't taken to the streets to demand an utter reorganization of our health care system and vast clawbacks from insurance providers, but since we haven't, the least we could do is rally behind our President and force congress to give a public health care plan a shot.

 

[SRock]

you gotta love b&b! I was just telling someone today that i'd love to learn more about the health care systems in other countries, as the only ones we ever hear about in comparison to ours are canada and the u.k.

+1

 

[liege]

As soon as President Obama said we need to act now and immediately before it's too late my BS meter went off. I'm not saying there is nothing to be fixed but the urgency factor spells trouble down the road because of rash, feel-good actions by congress. They're such pillars of wisdom that I trust my future health care to them?

I don't think so.

Fix it slowly, deliberately, and with purpose. Fix what's broke, no more.

rant off/