NON-ageing tobaccos?

[AimlessWanderer]

Irrespective of whether they'll improve over time or not, which pipe tobaccos do you folks find to always be great when opened/smoked straight away?

Of the samples I've been trying, the VaBur blends rarely seem to disappoint, or taste in any way "incomplete". Occasionally a little coarse edged perhaps, but still a good smoke. Anything with a topping, not necessarily full blown aromatics, seem to always be ready for smoking too. Though some, including Lakelands, can taste a little "raw". I have noticed a difference in buying loose tobaccos, depending whether it's the start of the jar, or well into the second half. Even Condor can be variable, depending how long it's been sat on the shelf.

 

[Kentos]

I would agree most mixed blends taste good straight away, while unstoved Straight Va’s tend to be a bit raw depending on the blender.
For me Lat blends also taste fine out the tin, bit those with Va’s get way better with age too.

 

[RookieGuy]

I would agree most mixed blends taste good straight away, while unstoved Straight Va’s tend to be a bit raw depending on the blender.
For me Lat blends also taste fine out the tin, bit those with Va’s get way better with age too.

I've heard in lat blends, aging mellows out the lat some. I can see that and the smoother va adding much to the party.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

I would agree most mixed blends taste good straight away, while unstoved Straight Va’s tend to be a bit raw depending on the blender.
For me Lat blends also taste fine out the tin, bit those with Va’s get way better with age too.

By unstoved, do you mean not Cavendish, or are there other nuances I'm not aware of?

 

[Columbo]

The perceived beneficial effects of cellaring tend to be dependent on the native sugar content of the base leaf stock.

Curing, casing and toppings can certainly influence things one way or the other. But the remaining post-processing native sugar content of the base leaf is nearly always the main driver. At least for me.

That is why Virginians tend to respond to cellaring more distinctly than say a Burley. Flue-cured VA is about the most heavily used base leaf in pipe blends, and is a decidedly 'sweet' leaf as sugar content goes.

So quite a few blends will respond favorably to cellaring as their VA component improves.

I'll just add that if you like Vitamin N in your bowl, you are not going to get it from a typical VA. You need to incorporate something like an air-cured Burley in the blend, which can be a very pleasant leaf once cased, but is much lower in sugar, and consequently much less impacted by cellaring.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Alacrity59]

Are you saying the sugar ferments?

 

[Kentos]

By unstoved, do you mean not Cavendish, or are there other nuances I'm not aware of?

For me Cavendish is a heavily heated leaf, mostly burley I think, with the aim to extract the most sugar and to cook out the most flavor so that it doesn’t interfere with the aromatic toppings.
Stoved Va’s are heated as well, but not as much as a Cavendish, and it’s to enhance the flavor, and I suspect to lower nicotine levels as well. McClelland made a bunch of stoved
Blends like Dark Star, Navy Flake etc are stoved blends that were great right out the tin, likely due to the stoved Va’s.

I think anything with “matured” or “Dark” in the description probably has stoved in it. Heck even FVF is pressed under steam so it’s stoved as well, kinda, I think.

 

[RookieGuy]

Are you saying the sugar ferments?

As the bacteria consume the sugars, that's the fermentation process. So... yeah, kind of.

 

[Columbo]

Are you saying the sugar ferments?

To be careful but not evasive, perhaps not precisely in a single term. But perhaps so, if your term describes the below process.

I am not a microbiologist. But my understanding is that the beneficial aging effects are a chemical transformation of the original compounds, facilitated by the actions of microbiomes utilizing those sugars. Not mold (although molds are always a risk element in such environments), but what would be best described as 'good' bacteria are doing the dance, fueled by the sugars.

If that fits your definition of 'sugar fermentation', then you have nailed it.

How the process proceeds efficiently in a sealed environment, with the absence of additional oxygen, which may cause oxidation of the involved compounds and resultant 'bittering', is beyond my pay grade at the moment (I don't feel like learning that).

FWIW, cavindish is not a tobacco, but a processing method. Most, but not all, cavendish uses a VA for its base leaf. A few are Burley-based, though.

Because of the fundamental differences in curing, what goes on with cellaring VA is very different from what goes in when 'aging' a cigar. A conversation for another day.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

All fantastic info, thanks. What I'm more interested in here though, is which tobaccos folks here think taste great without all that complicated science stuff.

New tin, pop, stuff, smoke, grin

Another way of asking, might be if you were separated from all your nicely aged tobaccos, and were purely reliant on buying new tins/pouches of factory fresh tobaccos for the next month or so, what types/blends would be the ones you'd go after?

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Most, but not all, cavendish uses a VA for its base leaf. A few are Burley-based, though.

That was my understanding too. I think there's a lot of intentional vagaries in play though. Some "dark fired" descriptions seem to imply Virginias, while others seem to imply Burley or Kentucky. There seems to be a lot of effort going into making it sound appealing, without actually divulging the recipe.

It doesn't help that not all stores write their sales pitch up the same either. For example, some saying Germain's Brown Flake and Peterson’s Sherlock Holmes are VaBur blends, while others say straight virginia. (both of which are great fresh, by the way )

 

[radrick96]

As far as I know, Latakia and Cavendish are both processed from other blends. I might be wrong

Amphora blends are good. The burley and Kentucky were my favorites but Virginia was also good.

So are Peter Stokkebye blends. I was given some from @brandaves in a PIF, and had to buy some to keep in stock. I enjoyed the Luxury Twist Flake and Luxury Navy Flake. Bullseye Coins are also good.

I’m also a fan of Prince Albert. My first year smoking was only PA out of a MM legend. Only after it was unavailable in my B&M and everywhere online for some reason, did I stumble into the rabbit hole of pipe smoking and venture into other blends. I know if I’m forced I can be happy with a simple cob and a can of PA.

 

[RookieGuy]

New tin, pop, stuff, smoke, grin

Another way of asking, might be if you were separated from all your nicely aged tobaccos, and were purely reliant on buying new tins/pouches of factory fresh tobaccos for the next month or so, what types/blends would be the ones you'd go after?

That tin you just popped. Does it taste like freshly mown grass or freshly cut hay? Age that one!

 

[Kentos]

That was my understanding too. I think there's a lot of intentional vagaries in play though. Some "dark fired" descriptions seem to imply Virginias, while others seem to imply Burley or Kentucky. There seems to be a lot of effort going into making it sound appealing, without actually divulging the recipe.

It doesn't help that not all stores write their sales pitch up the same either. For example, some saying Germain's Brown Flake and Peterson’s Sherlock Holmes are VaBur blends, while others say straight virginia. (both of which are great fresh, by the way )

That may have been true at one point but from my research many have transitioned to Burley. C&D uses burley, Lane BCA is purportedly Green River Burley, as does Sutliff.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

That tin you just popped. Does it taste like freshly mown grass or freshly cut hay? Age that one!

But does it taste good now? That's the one's we're trying to find in this thread. Not which to cellar, we pretty much all agree that's anything with significant Virginia content. Which (including those Virginia blends) will give a great smoke as soon as you get your paws on it?

 

[AimlessWanderer]

As far as I know, Latakia and Cavendish are both processed from other blends. I might be wrong

Amphora blends are good. The burley and Kentucky were my favorites but Virginia was also good.

So are Peter Stokkebye blends. I was given some from @brandaves in a PIF, and had to buy some to keep in stock. I enjoyed the Luxury Twist Flake and Luxury Navy Flake. Bullseye Coins are also good.

I’m also a fan of Prince Albert. My first year smoking was only PA out of a MM legend. Only after it was unavailable in my B&M and everywhere online for some reason, did I stumble into the rabbit hole of pipe smoking and venture into other blends. I know if I’m forced I can be happy with a simple cob and a can of PA.

Now we're getting somewhere!

Amphora have been in my blind spot. I was under the impression they were the type of aromatic that were so sticky you could fit windows with them. A quick nosy around just now revealed some interesting "hint of aro" blends I had breezed over before. Thanks Rick!

Stokkebye blends over here seem to be in transition. I've seen a Kentucky Nougat in a few places, but most are 4th Gen blends which are eight (or more) different dates. I haven't tried any yet, but some do sound to be the kind of blend I had in mind for this thread.

The others are probably good stateside suggestions, perfectly valid for the thread, but sadly unobtainable this side of the puddle.

Cheers Rick

 

[RookieGuy]

Oh, I'm sorry, I missed that.

In that case, it'll be worth digging for PS LTF. First smoke that lasted over an hour I was disappointed it was over. However not readily available for you.

I'm sure @steveclarkus will be along momentarily with his list of Burley based almost but not quite aromatics that were around 15 minutes after the first caveman inhaled the burning leaves of a nearby bush with a small hollow log. Those brands tend to be pretty bullet proof right out of the pouch.

I've had pretty good luck with the C&D lines I've tried so far.

Also adding a dash of anything I don't care for on it's own to a bowl of [Name Brand Generic that's cheap and available and well known, if not loved] will bring about good things. I don't know if that's something you'd be interested in though.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Oh, I'm sorry, I missed that.

In that case, it'll be worth digging for PS LTF. First smoke that lasted over an hour I was disappointed it was over. However not readily available for you.

I'm sure @steveclarkus will be along momentarily with his list of Burley based almost but not quite aromatics that were around 15 minutes after the first caveman inhaled the burning leaves of a nearby bush with a small hollow log. Those brands tend to be pretty bullet proof right out of the pouch.

I've had pretty good luck with the C&D lines I've tried so far.

Also adding a dash of anything I don't care for on it's own to a bowl of [Name Brand Generic that's cheap and available and well known, if not loved] will bring about good things. I don't know if that's something you'd be interested in though.

I don't know if my Father had reached puberty by the time Steve was first tooting on a pipe I think "almost but not quite aromatic" is a good safe zone for this thread. I'd count the likes of Palace Gate in there, which is a good "grab and go" blend. Gawith Hoggarth Red is another.

 

[steveclarkus]

Oh, I'm sorry, I missed that.

In that case, it'll be worth digging for PS LTF. First smoke that lasted over an hour I was disappointed it was over. However not readily available for you.

I'm sure @steveclarkus will be along momentarily with his list of Burley based almost but not quite aromatics that were around 15 minutes after the first caveman inhaled the burning leaves of a nearby bush with a small hollow log. Those brands tend to be pretty bullet proof right out of the pouch.

I've had pretty good luck with the C&D lines I've tried so far.

Also adding a dash of anything I don't care for on it's own to a bowl of [Name Brand Generic that's cheap and available and well known, if not loved] will bring about good things. I don't know if that's something you'd be interested in though.

Ha! I believe I’ve listed them already and a rather small stable at that. My two favorite Burleys are Half and Half and the Edgeworth remakes. H&H being my favorite but possibly to be overtaken by Edgeworth. I have a pound of Surliff Edgeworth on the way. I will report any difference when I’ve had the Sutliff. Being available in bulk, the Sutliff is quite a bargain compared to the Lane at 28 bucks per pound. As far as I know there is no bulk match for H&H. H&H was originally flavored with Tonquin bean which was banned by the FDA because it contained Coumadin, a blood thinner. I imagine they concocted a mixture of spices, coriander, maze and cardamom that resembled the flavor of Tonquin to keep their fans. Tonquin is a vanilla like flavoring still used in French cooking. When I smoke it, I don’t taste vanilla but I feel vanilla an my tongue and love it. There is pressure on the FDA currently to remove the restriction so I Hope a company will recreate the original blend.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Ha! I believe I’ve listed them already and a rather small stable at that. My two favorite Burleys are Half and Half and the Edgeworth remakes. H&H being my favorite but possibly to be overtaken by Edgeworth. I have a pound of Surliff Edgeworth on the way. I will report any difference when I’ve had the Sutliff. Being available in bulk, the Sutliff is quite a bargain compared to the Lane at 28 bucks per pound. As far as I know there is no bulk match for H&H. H&H was originally flavored with Tonquin bean which was banned by the FDA because it contained Coumadin, a blood thinner. I imagine they concocted a mixture of spices, coriander, maze and another I can’t remember that resembled the flavor of Tonquin to keep their fans. Tonquin is a vanilla like flavoring still used in French cooking. When I smoke it, I don’t taste vanilla but I feel vanilla an my tongue and love it. There is pressure on the FDA currently to remove the restriction so I Hope a company will recreate the original blend.

If you like Tonquin, 1792 Flake, and Elmos Reserve if they still make it, which is the snuff equivalent. Personally I can't abide the stuff. I love vanilla, but Tonquin is gruesome in my opinion. I know some folks have used tonka beans to scent their own stuff, just leaving a bean or three in the tobacco for a while.