New to straight edge, I have questions, looking for recommendations

[Morik]

Hi everyone,

I have decided to give straight razors a go. I've used DE/safety razors for a couple years now, and am all set on how to build good lather.

Not too concerned with costs, so if anyone has suggestions of substitutions that may cost more but would make things easier on me, or give me a better shave, I'm all ears.

My initial thoughts after reading the interactive SE guide are:

Razor
5/8"
round tip

stainless steel (less maintenance, hone less frequently, edge just as good is the impression )

Thinking full hollow or 1/4 hollow grind; my beard is medium coarseness (I think... haven't really gone around feeling other guys faces, but from appearances I've certainly seen guys who look like they have spring-steel growing out of their face--that isn't me.)

Not sure on brand. Thiers Issard is what I was thinking of getting, as I don't plan to hone myself the extra honing difficulty shouldn't be a problem, yeah? From the interactive guide, my reading is that a properly honed TI will give a better shave than a Dovo. Not sure how it compares to others of the "good" brands listed on the interactive guide... Boker & Dovo both seem to make stainless steel, but looking around online I don't see any stainless TIs.

Another point regarding brand is that WCS says they have their own honemeister hone the blade before shipping it out--but they don't sell TIs. Could get a Boker or Dovo through them though.
(This isn't a huge deal, but would be more of a pain to have to have it shipped to me, then ship it off to an independent honemeister.)
(Has anyone with good SE experience used a WCS-honed razor? Would I be better off getting it honed by someone else?)

Strop

Thinking canvas & leather strop, with handle.

Honing

I will get it professionally honed before first use.

After that, every 100-200 shaves seems to be what I see on the forum (3-6 months is what I read, but I typically don't shave daily.) Does that sound right?

How hard would it be to learn to hone it myself? From what I read, it sounds like I would want to find a cheapish razor to practice honing on before self-honing my main shaving razor. (Any suggestions for a cheapish razor to practice honing on?)


Thanks for any advice/suggestions!

PS: Not looking for tips on shaving technique--if I run into trouble I'll try to read more/ask in a separate thread.

 

[Lmarkow]

Congrats on the decision to ditch the training wheels! I always recommend the Boker Silver Steel. It's a 6/8 blade, but I don't think the difference between 5/8 and 6/8 is likely to be noticed. It isn't stainless, which I don't care for, but is a great razor, imo. The faux tortoise it usually comes in is very nice.

Good luck, but whatever you wind up with, please let us know and post some pics.

 

[Morik]

So actually I've spent some time since posting this reading up on honing, and it doesn't look too conceptually difficult, just hard to actually execute correctly.

Given that, I may want to try honing whatever I get back up to shaving readiness after I use it a while.
So I'm thinking I should avoid the Thiers Issard for my first straight as what I read is that it is harder to hone properly.
And that I should go with carbon steel as it sounds easier to hone.
I assume if I mess up my blade I can send it off to a pro to fix it back up, so long as I don't totally destroy it.

I'll figure out what I need for honing later, in another thread if needed.

Seems like it would still be a good idea to practice on a cheaper razor though, so any suggestions for something cheaper (~$50 would be good) I could practice on (and then shave with to see that I honed it correctly) would be appreciated.


EDIT: One more question: Where would I go to find a canvas & leather strop? I'd prefer a 3" wide one if I can find one, so I don't have to start with X-strokes. (I looked online and can't seem to find a 3" wide one with a canvas side & a leather side that isn't ridiculously priced. Maybe I'll just go with a < 3" one...)

 

[Steve56]

TI does not make a stainless model. If you want a stainless, a vintage Henckels Friodur is going to be hard to beat, many models available in good shape or NOS at reasonable prices if you shop around.

I have not had any difficulty honing TI razors.

The Boker Silver Steel gets high marks from almost everyone, so that would likely be an excellent choice. Get Alfredo (Doc226) to put. Smooth Jnat edge on it for you.

Get a Whipped Dog to practice on, or a shave-ready Gold Dollar. Why a shave ready Gold Dollar? Getting them ready for honing can be above a beginner's pay grade.

But don't worry too much about the first razor, if you like straight shaving many more will follow. Don't ask me how I know this...

Cheers, Steve

 

[Rusty Blade]

My 2 cents worth. I am also new to SR shaving. (Five shaves I think) I purchased a Dovo 6/8 Best Quality and a leather board strop. I've been having a great time. I have several vintage SRs that I have been restoring with the hopes of doing my own honing. I am taking this SR trip one step at a time and learning to shave and stropping first. Then I will tackle the honing. So far so good. Have fun. Enjoy.

 

[David]

So actually I've spent some time since posting this reading up on honing, and it doesn't look too conceptually difficult, just hard to actually execute correctly.

Given that, I may want to try honing whatever I get back up to shaving readiness after I use it a while.
So I'm thinking I should avoid the Thiers Issard for my first straight as what I read is that it is harder to hone properly.
And that I should go with carbon steel as it sounds easier to hone.
I assume if I mess up my blade I can send it off to a pro to fix it back up, so long as I don't totally destroy it.

I'll figure out what I need for honing later, in another thread if needed.

Seems like it would still be a good idea to practice on a cheaper razor though, so any suggestions for something cheaper (~$50 would be good) I could practice on (and then shave with to see that I honed it correctly) would be appreciated.


EDIT: One more question: Where would I go to find a canvas & leather strop? I'd prefer a 3" wide one if I can find one, so I don't have to start with X-strokes. (I looked online and can't seem to find a 3" wide one with a canvas side & a leather side that isn't ridiculously priced. Maybe I'll just go with a < 3" one...)

There's a member here that sells shave ready gold dollars for as good of a price as you'll find, and he includes a year of free honing. I always recommend starting with a GD, then once you upgrade to a better razor use the GD to practice honing. Scott is an extremely accomplished honer and his coticule edges are buttery smooth. You can buy his razors here https://www.panjo.com/buy/on-salesh...raight-razor-free-honing-for-12-months-314387

 

[colosilverado]

Hi everyone,

I have decided to give straight razors a go. I've used DE/safety razors for a couple years now, and am all set on how to build good lather.

Not too concerned with costs, so if anyone has suggestions of substitutions that may cost more but would make things easier on me, or give me a better shave, I'm all ears.

My initial thoughts after reading the interactive SE guide are:

Razor
5/8"
round tip

stainless steel (less maintenance, hone less frequently, edge just as good is the impression )

Thinking full hollow or 1/4 hollow grind; my beard is medium coarseness (I think... haven't really gone around feeling other guys faces, but from appearances I've certainly seen guys who look like they have spring-steel growing out of their face--that isn't me.)

Not sure on brand. Thiers Issard is what I was thinking of getting, as I don't plan to hone myself the extra honing difficulty shouldn't be a problem, yeah? From the interactive guide, my reading is that a properly honed TI will give a better shave than a Dovo. Not sure how it compares to others of the "good" brands listed on the interactive guide... Boker & Dovo both seem to make stainless steel, but looking around online I don't see any stainless TIs.

Another point regarding brand is that WCS says they have their own honemeister hone the blade before shipping it out--but they don't sell TIs. Could get a Boker or Dovo through them though.
(This isn't a huge deal, but would be more of a pain to have to have it shipped to me, then ship it off to an independent honemeister.)
(Has anyone with good SE experience used a WCS-honed razor? Would I be better off getting it honed by someone else?)

Strop

Thinking canvas & leather strop, with handle.

Honing

I will get it professionally honed before first use.

After that, every 100-200 shaves seems to be what I see on the forum (3-6 months is what I read, but I typically don't shave daily.) Does that sound right?

How hard would it be to learn to hone it myself? From what I read, it sounds like I would want to find a cheapish razor to practice honing on before self-honing my main shaving razor. (Any suggestions for a cheapish razor to practice honing on?)


Thanks for any advice/suggestions!

PS: Not looking for tips on shaving technique--if I run into trouble I'll try to read more/ask in a separate thread.

As a newbie myself, I can't emphasize enough how important it is to go with a PROVEN honemeister. I have a 5/8 FWE Special that I bought from a seller as being "shave ready" and have shaved with several times..., and at the same time I had 5 other razors sent to a known honemeister with years of experience.
I just got those razors back, and I can say that there's a definitely a new level of sharpness and therefore smoothness. Now, the only difference is that the new acquisition is an FWE Leader vs a Special and the Leader is 9/16 (maybe 11/16)and not 5/8...and honed by someone different.
I would imagine that the steel and heat treat, etc., is the same.
To the person who sold me the FWE Special's credit, he didn't do his absolutely sharpest edge. However, neither did the honemeiser, AFAIK because there's a "special " honing level available forslightly more money.

I think that the honing and technique are absolutely critical...just like people on this board emphasize.

 

[life2short1971]

There's a member here that sells shave ready gold dollars for as good of a price as you'll find, and he includes a year of free honing. I always recommend starting with a GD, then once you upgrade to a better razor use the GD to practice honing. Scott is an extremely accomplished honer and his coticule edges are buttery smooth. You can buy his razors here https://www.panjo.com/buy/on-salesh...raight-razor-free-honing-for-12-months-314387

Thank you David you are too kind!
If I can be of any help to anyone your welcome to contact me however you like.

 

[Morik]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions all.

I ordered a GD from Scott--I plan to try honing it myself when it dulls down a bit.

 

[life2short1971]

Thanks!
If you have problems honing on your own your still welcome to send it to me if you need some help.

 

[Seraphim]

I have said this on many threads, and I'll say it again:

Personally, I don't believe there is any such thing as a "Beginner" razor.

Sure, there are some razors out there with a spike tip that can easily cut you. But, in my opinion, those razors suck for beginners and experts alike.

Roundpoints can be made to avoid having a sharp tip, but so can ANY other shape tip, it is simply up to the honer to remove the sharp little bloodthirsty point at the very tip, and ANY shape can be made to shave as easily as a roundpoint. There is nothing particularly magically safe about a roundpoint.

Size doesn't really matter either.

Big blades are more difficult to fit under your nose, but they are easier to maintain a consistent shaving angle.

Small blades feel more maneuverable, but are more difficult to maintain angle, they are a bit more "twitchy" that way.

My advice is to but whatever razor looks the coolest to you. The one that fills you with razor lust. Part of the appeal of using a straight is the aesthetic beauty of it (See the "What straight did you use today" thread for examples...).


Shaving tip #1- KEEP THE RAZOR ALMOST FLAT AGAINST YOUR FACE!

Don't try for the oft mentioned "30 degree angle", it will end up being far too steep, and you will be scraping your whiskers off, not shaving them off. You will have a crappy shave, and degrade your edge quicker than you can sat "Jimeny crickets".

Have the spine of the razor juuuuust off your skin, and swipe away those whiskers.


Tip #2- BUY MORE RAZORS!

You know you are going to need a "backup"
And a backup for your backup.
And a Sheffield wedge
And a Solingnen full hollow
And a.....
etc...

 

[alpster]

I have said this on many threads, and I'll say it again:

Personally, I don't believe there is any such thing as a "Beginner" razor.

... The one that fills you with razor lust. Part of the appeal of using a straight is the aesthetic beauty of it (See the "What straight did you use today" thread for examples...).


Shaving tip #1- KEEP THE RAZOR ALMOST FLAT AGAINST YOUR FACE!

Don't try for the oft mentioned "30 degree angle", it will end up being far too steep, and you will be scraping your whiskers off, not shaving them off. You will have a crappy shave, and degrade your edge quicker than you can sat "Jimeny crickets".

Have the spine of the razor juuuuust off your skin, and swipe away those whiskers.


Tip #2- BUY MORE RAZORS!

You know you are going to need a "backup"
And a backup for your backup.
And a Sheffield wedge
And a Solingnen full hollow
And a.....
etc...

This is pretty much the gospel of straight shaving. I am to the point that the spine of my razors are almost always against my skin for the whole shave. I have a stach, so I don't shave under my nose. Everywhere else the spine rarely leaves my skin. I can't remember the last time I cut myself or had even a weeper. Before straight razors, I bled nearly every shave. Hope this is helpful.

 

[Slash McCoy]

If you properly strop and care for your razor you should be able to go longer than that. But it is dependent on your steel and your personal stropping ability. Spend as little as possible on a strop, you'll cut it to pieces learning to strop and there is no getting around that.
If you want a cheap razor to practice on get a WD sight unseen for 25-30 bucks. It will come with a great blade that is shave ready. Shave and strop to your hearts content and learn how easily it is to dull your blade by improper stropping and learn how to do it right. I've never owned a GD and won't because I'm beyond a starter, but it is my understanding that it is a more difficult blade to strop and hone.

A STOCK GD is harder to deal with, yeah. They have issues. Sorta like the Dovo "Best" razors have issues. BUT... A properly modified GD hones just as easily as any razor. Easier, in some cases. For instance, while I do thin my spine to get the bevel angle down, and remove heel and stabilizer, and fair away the shoulder, I also make the shank thinner than the spine, so hone over-runs do not lift the heel of the razor off the hone. Pretty much foolproof, and even easier than a Bismarck. And any competent modder can do this, and I am sure many of them do. But the main thing is just getting rid of the stabilizer and shoulder. Pretty much anyone can do that in a half hour with a dremel and sanding drum, or a "dragster" type belt sander. It's not rocket surgery.

A WD would be great for learning to hone on. Two would be even better, and the price is right. Knowing that they WERE once shave ready will help immensely in evaluating results and expectations.

 

[Slash McCoy]

What Seraphim said. I have always recommended that the gap between spine and face be equal to half the spine thickness. That gives a true shave angle of typically 21 to 25 degrees. Actually dragging the spine on the face can cause stutter, but keeping it close, within a half spine thickness, will give you the most comfortable and bloodless shave, along with good skin stretching, shave direction, and light pressure. If you feel you must use a steeper angle to get a razor to shave, it probably isn't sharp enough.

I do believe that some razors are better than others for learning. A large bevel angle wont cut as readily or exfoliate as aggressively, for instance. But it's really not that big a deal. Plenty of newbs have their first real shave with a shavette, for instance, and that is about as quick to punish the unwary as any regular straight could possibly be. A spike can be muted easily on a bit of fine sandpaper. A singing full hollow is more delicate but you can destroy the edge on a full wedge just as quickly. Just get a razor. Shave. Get another one, maybe a different size or style, shave with it. And another. Figure out what you like by experience. A guide is just to steer you in the general direction. It is not a book of shaving law. Same all goes for strops, but for the first couple of weeks it is good to strop on a strop that is totally expendable, yeah. After that you can do fine with a $10 homemade strop, or a $3000 strop made from the skin of a Kentucky Derby winner by cave dwelling virgin blind albino druidic nuns using only their toes, working only during the first full moon after the winter solstice on election years, and endorsed and signed personally by Sweeney Todd.

 

[ciderguy]

This is pretty much the gospel of straight shaving. I am to the point that the spine of my razors are almost always against my skin for the whole shave. I have a stach, so I don't shave under my nose. Everywhere else the spine rarely leaves my skin. I can't remember the last time I cut myself or had even a weeper. Before straight razors, I bled nearly every shave. Hope this is helpful.

I'm part of the pass around that [MENTION=110007]doc47[/MENTION] mentioned. I shave with a SR at a similar angle to an SE. I've yet to try DE shaving. By keeping the spine almost against the skin, I've survived the first 3 days with minimal blood loss. I only needed the styptic pencil once. Straights are wonderful and they force you to really focus on technique.

 

[ouch]

Good luck. One of the Catch-22's of edge retention is that once you know what you're doing the edge can be serviceable for a substantial amount of time, but while you're learning the ropes you can dull it in no time at all. That can be quite frustrating.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Is it still a GD if you modify it this much? I think not.
I have issues with many of the recommendations that have been made thus far. As a whole this thread encouraged a new user to buy a specific razor without so much as though for what might be best for a beginner. The Mods and I have been setting up a razor share program. Morin should have been encouraged to sign up for the pass around box. I don't care what he uses in the end (he'll end up with multiple razors) but he specified he wanted a cheap solution and with the pass around box he could have picked a free razor from among the five he would have been sent. He would also have been hooked up with a group of beginners just like him to maybe "buddy" during the learning process. You GD guys go over board with your recommendations, I know you love your Chinese blades, but please give a beginner a chance to try different hones, blade shapes, points, weights, etc. and let them decide what feels right on their skin before you start putting GDs in their hands. All of this is MHO and you can feel free to ignore it. We've got 16 newbies who are not going to miss out on this deal. Maybe, in the future you'd start pointing newbies in this direction because this is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Well, I sure didn't mean to ruffle any feathers out there, and yeah your passaround offer is a good deal. But tell ya what... I was just going through my junk box and ran across one of my old "Dirty Dozen" barely modified Gold Dollars and I was just wondering if I ought to do something with it. I only spent probably an hour or so on the belt sander with it, back a year or two ago when I probably did it. I got a little carried away and there is no way it will ever be "pretty". Getting to the bottom of all the grind marks and getting a good consistent polish over the entire blade looks like a doubtful proposition. So, no multistage 50 hour sanding regimen for this guy. No messing about with getting a perfect bevel angle. No fancy scales for it. But it hones up nice and treetops well, no gymnastical extortionisms required on hone or strop. I will peen it back into some stock scales and send it your way to try, if you are the least bit curious. Keep it, pass it on, or even stick it in your passaround box. I was torn between PIFing it or tossing it so it doesn't matter to me, and hey I will even test shave with it if you like but I already know how it will shave. I'll even pay the postage, in the interest of the sharing of knowledge on this great and wonderful platform for exchange of ideas. If you are interested, PM your shipping details and I will get it out tomorrow. Like I said, it is rough and ready, but I think the shave, and how easy it is to hone, and just how simple the modification was, might surprise you.

With modded GDs, addressing functional issues is only a small part of the usual effort. Most of the usual work goes into purely aesthetic/cosmetic work. Turning the ugly duckling into a work of art. But the work of art part doesnt shave. The functional part does. Pretty doesn't hone or strop any easier. The functional does. And the functional part, as I mentioned, is pretty quick and simple.

Someone had already mentioned the passaround box, and I had no issue with that. You can quote me on this: It is a good opportunity for a beginner to try a variety of razors without paying anything except a couple bucks postage. I think it is very generous. But just like I don't recommend a Whipped Dog in every single post, and just like I don't recommend a GD in every post, and just like I don't recommend checking out BST in every post, just like I don't recommend a Bismarck from TSS in every post, and just like I don't recommend anybody in particular in every single post, as long as I already see your generous offer mentioned at every turn I am not going to parrotsquawk about it in every post. I commend you for your excellent idea and for taking the trouble and expense to get it going, but you must accept my apology for my failure to mention it at the expense of other options. I understand that you are justifiably proud of a great idea, and I will try to help keep it in the air, but if you already have 16 guys signed up it is going to take a while for anybody new added to the bottom of the list to get one of those nice razors on his face.

 

[David]

Nice offer Slash. I'm not what I'd call a "GD" guy, but I do use them regularly (mainly for testing new stones) and I do recommend them when I think it's appropriate. GD's have helped many guys get started with straights, and also helped lots of guys learn how to hone, so they definitely have their role in the straight razor world, not to mention the fun we get to have watching the gold dollar mod competition each year.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Nice offer Slash. I'm not what I'd call a "GD" guy, but I do use them regularly (mainly for testing new stones) and I do recommend them when I think it's appropriate. GD's have helped many guys get started with straights, and also helped lots of guys learn how to hone, so they definitely have their role in the straight razor world, not to mention the fun we get to have watching the gold dollar mod competition each year.

HAH yeah I follow the competition every year but this is the first year I threw my hat in the ring. I was pretty excited about getting in the top 3 in the comp! Its looking like jlindy trumped me with his scales that everybody is oohing and ahing over but nevertheless I am still hopeful. And yeah, they are pretty cheap cannon fodder, and unlike others in that price range, the steel is actually pretty good. I have been making wedge blades for my wedge SE razors out of them. No way I would chop up a more expensive razor just to make a blade for an old lathercatcher.

 

[life2short1971]

My feathers aren't ruffled, so you are OK there. If you would like to donate your modified GD, I'd be more than happy to include it in one of our boxes. We will soon have 3 boxes (end of next week or before) and if this continues to gain interest, I have no problem starting a 4th box. This opportunity affords a newbie an opportunity to try many styles, which I think we all agree is a good thing and may keep the razor of their choosing. That's a lot of free razors I'm giving away to help guys get started. I want those who have been around B&B for a while to join in and help by donating razors, tipping off new users, etc. So thanks for the offer of a GD, I have a member in Japan who tried and didn't like SR shaving and he is donating 2 razors to the cause. All I want is for newbies to have the best chance at success and maybe help them avoid the pitfalls most of us encounter. The honers on this site are volunteering to keep the razors sharp so the shaves will all be top notch. I just want this to be fun. The site members have even helped developed a nice "starters guide" to help the beginners with a smooth start.

Be sure to let them know the risks of sharing a razor with others and the chance of spreading disease or will you be using an autoclave or other approve sterilization before each member recieves it? You are responsible if they catch something .