New to me Nagura Mejiro

[Sustainashave]

Hey Guys,

Got my first large Mejiro and just sealed it, excited to use it. It weighs about 230g and I much much larger than the one I've currently got.

Any pearls of wisdom to get the best out of it?

 

[cotedupy]

Hey Guys,

Got my first large Mejiro and just sealed it, excited to use it. It weighs about 230g and I much much larger than the one I've currently got.

Any pearls of wisdom to get the best out of it? View attachment 1814860View attachment 1814864

Looks sweet mate, nice one!

Though surely 95% of the fun of all this is the experimentation, and finding out what you think’s best…

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

I round all the sharp corners of the face side and one of the sides to a nice radius. Anything that will contact the base stone. Sharp corners will break off in chunks.

I make slurry with one of the radiused corners, as said experiment with slurry from the bottom, corners and side. Think about it, these stones are made of layers of sediment, a 1-inch layer could be thousands of years in the making, so yea, the side can finish differently from the bottom.

They are natural stones, so experimentation is key. Note stamped nagura are not “grit” rated they are rated for color and strata, not grit.

Some folks say their Mejiro produces finer edges than their Koma, this is entirely possible. A lot will depend on your base stone, the slurry you create is a blend of the base and nagura stones.

For me, less slurry is more, but I take a razor with a mirror bevel to a Jnat, you milage may vary…

I think Jnats are one of the easiest stones for a new honer to learn. Certainly, way more fun than honing on synthetics.

Also do compare Diamond slurry made from different grits of diamond plates to your stamped nagura, you may be surprised from stone to stone!

Enjoy

 

[cotedupy]

I round all the sharp corners of the face side and one of the sides to a nice radius. Anything that will contact the base stone. Sharp corners will break off in chunks.

I make slurry with one of the radiused corners, as said experiment with slurry from the bottom, corners and side. Think about it, these stones are made of layers of sediment, a 1-inch layer could be thousands of years in the making, so yea, the side can finish differently from the bottom.

They are natural stones, so experimentation is key. Note stamped nagura are not “grit” rated they are rated for color and strata, not grit.

Some folks say their Mejiro produces finer edges than their Koma, this is entirely possible. A lot will depend on your base stone, the slurry you create is a blend of the base and nagura stones.

For me, less slurry is more, but I take a razor with a mirror bevel to a Jnat, you milage may vary…

I think Jnats are one of the easiest stones for a new honer to learn. Certainly, way more fun than honing on synthetics.

Also do compare Diamond slurry made from different grits of diamond plates to your stamped nagura, you may be surprised from stone to stone!

Enjoy

This reply from HBB is obviously quite a lot more helpful and informative than mine!

The only other thing I’d add (which I’m sure you know already SaS) is that: ***Mikawa Nagura Are Soaking Stones***

 

[rhgg2]

Another great tip from HBB, small soy sauce dishes are perfect for soaking nagura. I plop it in 5 mins before I want to use it and it's ready to go

 

[Sustainashave]

Looks sweet mate, nice one!

Though surely 95% of the fun of all this is the experimentation, and finding out what you think’s best…

Thanks! It's definitely a different stone compared to my tiny 30 gramer Mejiro.. lol

Very true words nice to know what others think as well though, I wouldn't
of thought about conditioning more than the bottom edge but what Brad said is a good idea to try.

 

[Sustainashave]

I round all the sharp corners of the face side and one of the sides to a nice radius. Anything that will contact the base stone. Sharp corners will break off in chunks.

I make slurry with one of the radiused corners, as said experiment with slurry from the bottom, corners and side. Think about it, these stones are made of layers of sediment, a 1-inch layer could be thousands of years in the making, so yea, the side can finish differently from the bottom.

They are natural stones, so experimentation is key. Note stamped nagura are not “grit” rated they are rated for color and strata, not grit.

Some folks say their Mejiro produces finer edges than their Koma, this is entirely possible. A lot will depend on your base stone, the slurry you create is a blend of the base and nagura stones.

For me, less slurry is more, but I take a razor with a mirror bevel to a Jnat, you milage may vary…

I think Jnats are one of the easiest stones for a new honer to learn. Certainly, way more fun than honing on synthetics.

Also do compare Diamond slurry made from different grits of diamond plates to your stamped nagura, you may be surprised from stone to stone!

Enjoy

Thanks for the tips Brad especially trying another none face side I'll give that a whirl.

I'm not new to honing but I come form a synthetics background (Shapton Pro's) so I've got lots to learn and I've just switched to harder Jnat as well. I've been reading lots on the naturalwhetsones website and Keith's work also, both are great resources. I've studied Iwasaki's book and also came across a old Japanese fella showing he's honing and technique on youtube see link below if your interested, the captions are a bit off to say the least! But you can get the idea.

I read about the grit thing it's pretty interesting in it's self, some eye they must have!

My edges have defiantly gone backwards this week as I've been going from 2000 shapton to my Naguras on my harder Jnat especially on the C.V Heljestrand lather catcher blades which are very fine and brittle, so I'm giving up on that and going back to as you say start from a mirror edge. I'll go up to the 8000 Shapton pro to start and maybe then go to the 12000 to see if I can feel a difference. What stone do you go to the naturals from generally?

Thanks Brad, much appreciated.

James

 

[Sustainashave]

 

[Sustainashave]

This is the video I meant, didn't load right in my thread.. I watch it at least once a week.

 

[Sustainashave]

Another great tip from HBB, small soy sauce dishes are perfect for soaking nagura. I plop it in 5 mins before I want to use it and it's ready to go

View attachment 1815314

Nice idea I'm just using a ex Chinese take away pot! I'll see what I can find looks really smart that..

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

“My edges have defiantly gone backwards. What stone do you go to the naturals from generally?”

Usually a Suehiro 10k, but often from a vintage King S-3 6k. The vintage King is not like the more modern pure synthetic stones. They look and feel kind of like a Kita with yellow muddy slurry, but polish like a Fuji or Snow White Naniwia 8k, almost mirror, with keen edge.

If you are having edge issues and are sure your edges are fully set, you may be edge dulling on the slurry. Watch your dilution, some stones finish better with just a mist slurry, some under running water.

I also have extra sauce dishes, to keep the naugra not in use to keep from getting slurry all over the bench. If you buy the same size dishes, they stack neatly. I usually hone more than one razor at a time.

 

[cotedupy]

Thanks for the tips Brad especially trying another none face side I'll give that a whirl.

I'm not new to honing but I come form a synthetics background (Shapton Pro's) so I've got lots to learn and I've just switched to harder Jnat as well. I've been reading lots on the naturalwhetsones website and Keith's work also, both are great resources. I've studied Iwasaki's book and also came across a old Japanese fella showing he's honing and technique on youtube see link below if your interested, the captions are a bit off to say the least! But you can get the idea.

I read about the grit thing it's pretty interesting in it's self, some eye they must have!

My edges have defiantly gone backwards this week as I've been going from 2000 shapton to my Naguras on my harder Jnat especially on the C.V Heljestrand lather catcher blades which are very fine and brittle, so I'm giving up on that and going back to as you say start from a mirror edge. I'll go up to the 8000 Shapton pro to start and maybe then go to the 12000 to see if I can feel a difference. What stone do you go to the naturals from generally?

Thanks Brad, much appreciated.

James

If you’re jumping from a 2k AlOx or SiC stone onto SiO2 - you’d want to pick a very fast natural stone to begin with. Because after bevel set; you’re hopefully not going to be using much pressure, and if going to a not-very-quick natural stone, then you’ll be there all day removing stria from an aggressive synth.

And the large majority of Japanese stones, even with nagura, are not particularly fast. Imo - you’d want to go a fair bit higher on synths, or find a faster, mid-range natural to bridge the gap. Or a use a Coticule.

 

[Gamma]

I jump from a 1k synth to Jnat very often. Have been for a verrrrry long time on a large number of stones using a ridiculous amount of Nagura.

It doesn't take me all day. And it's not because I'm a magician, it shouldn't take anyone all day.

If the Botan is real, and good, and the Honzan is equally on-point, then the time difference between removing the synth fingerprint after 1k vs doing it after a 5k should be, essentially negligible.

Synths are inherently faster than a Jnat progression, sure. And by all means try all sorts of things out to see where your comfort zone is. I have many comfort levels based on needs or intentions but when it's not a 'test' session I prefer to move from 1k to Jnat, or even forget the 1k and set the bevel on a Botan. Provided the blade isn't very damaged, it does not take all day and yeah I find those edges have a Je ne sais quoi not found in hybrid honed edges. .

When someone is starting to learn, I usually suggest reading my "Honing on Jnat" tutorial. There, I usually suggest honing to 5k or 8k first, not because of speed. Staring there gives a new user a solid benchmark to progress from. As skills progress, working backwards, jumping from earlier grits, gets you the full picture of feedback. Honing 1k, 5k, B, T, M, K is way different, feedback wise, than 1k, B,T, M, K. Might find different edges as a result too. Speedwise it's not all that big a deal really.

I do a lot, and I do mean an awful lot, of back and forth comparisons between Nagura and jumping from one Nagura or another to different grit synths.
A decent amount of pressure, lets call it medium pressure, is required for a Nagura progression - at least to start off each stage, right up through Koma.

If someone is getting finer edges from Mejiro than Koma, then probably...
A - The ground work was not done correctly.
B - They are using one or both Nagura incorrectly.
C - They have bogus Nagura, and there is a lot of it out there.
D - They have a legit Koma that is 'low grade' which was not intended to be used for ultra fine edges.

The amount of slurry needed for any stage is job dependent. Less is not more. Less is less and more is more. If you need more you need more.
More slurry does not mean thick slurry.
More is not thick, thick is thick. They are not the same thing.
Sometimes you need more but you usually won't need thick.
Thick slurry is ok for a bit early on but usually not after that. More slurry can be useful to ensure the job gets done evenly. I tend to use a good amount of slurry that is med thin to very thin. I have found that being afraid of the quantity of slurry is counter productive. What you want is the right amount for the task at hand. When I start off with a good amount of slurry it's easier to set up the process and manage the dilutions. If I mis judge and start with not enough slurry I usually have to re-slurry and blend the process together that way.