New, non-tallow Tabac reviews go in here

[ewk]

I guess Williams finally has competition from Tabac in the lathering department. No wait- I can lather Williams easy and its plenty slick too.

Did you buy this Tabac bowl from WCS for the $12 offer (then upped to $22 and now sold out). I was told by the WCS team that Tabac is non Tallow since a year.

Shenanigans galore in their "Tabac in bowl " sale.

I too am a Williams fan.

I was twice fortunate to get the WCS bowl 1. for the excellent price and 2. it is the tallow base. I honestly was not hoarding. It is my son's favorite, and my first bowl is therefore no longer in my shaving area. When he moves out soon, he will have his own. He very well may end up with a backup puck too.

 

[donny555]

hi friends,

i tryed out the difference with the new and the old version,since both were
available in stores in germany.

i wasnt able to find a difference between them,

If you take an equal amount of soap with equal lathering skills and brush it will be as good.

Actually in germany many people think that the new one has better
properties and that it doesnt dry out that fast,
so they see the new version as an improvement.


i think that the placebo effect is big here,

because if you "think" something will be different or worse,

it will be worse,or judged differently.

 

[ewk]

i think that the placebo effect is big here,
because if you "think" something will be different or worse,
it will be worse,or judged differently.

I completely agree with you regarding subjective responses and bias. My bias was towards the new, very much hoping the scent and performance would be the same. The two soaps I received yesterday are different colors. Scent and performance between the two is very different.

 

[clickity-click]

hi friends,

i tryed out the difference with the new and the old version,since both were
available in stores in germany.

i wasnt able to find a difference between them,

If you take an equal amount of soap with equal lathering skills and brush it will be as good.

Actually in germany many people think that the new one has better
properties and that it doesnt dry out that fast,
so they see the new version as an improvement.


i think that the placebo effect is big here,

because if you "think" something will be different or worse,

it will be worse,or judged differently.

Thanks for the review. Interesting results and the opposite of my own findings. The two most expensive ingredients in the old Tabac formula are Tallowate and Coconut Oil; both of these ingredients have been replaced by cheaper synthetic surfacants in the new Tabac formula. Call me a cynic, but I suspect replacing Tallowate and Coconut Oil with cheaper synthetic surfacants was not about improving the product.

 

[theklaw]

I completely agree with you regarding subjective responses and bias. My bias was towards the new, very much hoping the scent and performance would be the same. The two soaps I received yesterday are different colors. Scent and performance between the two is very different.

Does your area have hard water? I got a really poor lather out of the new formula... had no slickness whatsoever.
I then did some research and found out that my area has some of the hardest water in the country. I added some baking soda to my water and was able to produce a much better and slicker lather than before. Still haven't shaved with it, though.

The interesting thing is that the old formula seemed to perform quite well with my hard water.

 

[donny555]

Hi,

i also like shaving soaps with tallow very much,so i would still take the old version,and i like the yellow ish color tint


of course we dont know the prices for those big manufactureres.

but tallow is a cheap byproduct of the industry that gets thrown away if now buyer is found,

and coconut oil is also affordable these days,considering that it is featured in many cheap shaving creams like palmolive (100ml - 1 dollar here),

now iam not saying that the new ones are better by any means

who knows,

maybe the guys in the production departement wanted to go with the green/vegan trend in the new recipe

 

[FarmerTan]

If I have a puck or stick of Tabac that I haven't used, it's still classified as "new" Tabac, right?
But after I use it, it's not new any more, so I can't review it here. Hmmmm, tis a dilemma for sure.

NOW we know how he became an "Emeritus" folks!

 

[ewk]

Does your area have hard water?

I was not sure, so I just checked the USGS map of water hardness in the US. My southeastern region has the lowest concentration of minerals (less than 60 pp ml). Hard water does not appear to be an issue for me (thankfully).

 

[JCinPA]

Would love to see some side-by-side comparisons here. Anyone have both versions in their den?

 

[VerbaVolant]

... Anyone have both versions in their den?

Fortunately, I don't.

 

[ackvil]

Interesting thread. Will follow with interest.

 

[MurderousCrow]

Yep, interesting thread. I'd seen the (numerous) posts extolling Tabac's virtues, but was happy enough with my Nanny's, Lea and La Toja. I eventually gave in last week and bought a presumably 'new' stick of Tabac. I've used it twice and I'd rate it as good. It seems a thirsty soap to me, as others have alluded.

 

[Atlantic59]

Thanks for the review. Interesting results and the opposite of my own findings. The two most expensive ingredients in the old Tabac formula are Tallowate and Coconut Oil; both of these ingredients have been replaced by cheaper synthetic surfacants in the new Tabac formula. Call me a cynic, but I suspect replacing Tallowate and Coconut Oil with cheaper synthetic surfacants was not about improving the product.

The new Tabac formula does not contain synthetic surfactants. You kieep repeating this, but it's wrong. Synthetic surfactants would be detergents like sodium lauryl sulfate. These are good for cleaning, but may not be the best choice for use on your face. The main Tabac ingredients are just vegetable soaps, made with refined vegetable oils from natural sources.

Soaps and detergents are both surfactants. The manufacture is not using detergents as you seem to imply. What they are using is fractionated vegetable oil. Fractionating is a refining process that has been around practically forever. Unrefined oils consist of a mixture of several different fatty acids. Fractionating is a method of separating the different fatty acids using controlled cooling and filtering. There is no chemical change, simply separation and concentration of material. This allows the manufacture to more closely control the properties of their product. In this case, to more closely emulate the performance of the old Tabac shaving soap. That's probably a good and reasonable thing to do, not something to worry about.

 

[macintoshBR]

In this case, to more closely emulate the performance of the old Tabac shaving soap.

At least that’s what we all hope , but in reality the reason could be completely different. Your post is great because it disproves the fake news suggested by another member, but until we get more reviews, I would keep the subjective opinions about the soap aside.

 

[FarmerTan]

The new Tabac formula does not contain synthetic surfactants. You kieep repeating this, but it's wrong. Synthetic surfactants would be detergents like sodium lauryl sulfate. These are good for cleaning, but may not be the best choice for use on your face. The main Tabac ingredients are just vegetable soaps, made with refined vegetable oils from natural sources.

Soaps and detergents are both surfactants. The manufacture is not using detergents as you seem to imply. What they are using is fractionated vegetable oil. Fractionating is a refining process that has been around practically forever. Unrefined oils consist of a mixture of several different fatty acids. Fractionating is a method of separating the different fatty acids using controlled cooling and filtering. There is no chemical change, simply separation and concentration of material. This allows the manufacture to more closely control the properties of their product. In this case, to more closely emulate the performance of the old Tabac shaving soap. That's probably a good and reasonable thing to do, not something to worry about.

So. For once I'm not being a smart Alec.... Is the "fat" being used "kinda" like Crisco that you can put in Toll House cookies? Serious question. It's been DECADES since I had to take a nutrition class for Kollege.

 

[Atlantic59]

So. For once I'm not being a smart Alec.... Is the "fat" being used "kinda" like Crisco that you can put in Toll House cookies? Serious question. It's been DECADES since I had to take a nutrition class for Kollege.

Fat + Alkali = Soap in this case. Lauric acid makes up about 50% of coconut oil and palm kernel oil. Lauric acid is a saturated fatty acid making it a solid at room temperature. Potassium Laurate and Sodium Laurate are soaps made by reacting Lauric acid with Potassium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide, respectively. They are also present in the old Tabac, it is just that the ingredients panel shows Potassium Cocoate and Sodium Cocoate since the old process was different.

Lauric acid is actually one of the more valuable plant fatty acids. It is only present in a few plant oils, like coconut and palm kernel oil. It can be used to make synthetic detergents, but that is not what is being used in Tabac. Potassium Laurate and Sodium Laurate are soaps, not synthetic detergents as @clickity-click seems to think.

Fats in food like Crisco is a whole other subject.

 

[Flanders]

Fats in food like Crisco is a whole other subject.

So you are implying that we may have a use for the new stuff after all!

 

[clickity-click]

The new Tabac formula does not contain synthetic surfactants. You kieep repeating this, but it's wrong. Synthetic surfactants would be detergents like sodium lauryl sulfate. These are good for cleaning, but may not be the best choice for use on your face. The main Tabac ingredients are just vegetable soaps, made with refined vegetable oils from natural sources.

Soaps and detergents are both surfactants. The manufacture is not using detergents as you seem to imply. What they are using is fractionated vegetable oil. Fractionating is a refining process that has been around practically forever. Unrefined oils consist of a mixture of several different fatty acids. Fractionating is a method of separating the different fatty acids using controlled cooling and filtering. There is no chemical change, simply separation and concentration of material. This allows the manufacture to more closely control the properties of their product. In this case, to more closely emulate the performance of the old Tabac shaving soap. That's probably a good and reasonable thing to do, not something to worry about.

I am not a chemist or a soap maker, so I accept that the Sodium Laurate and Pottasium Laurate as detailed by Tabac on their products ingredients (new formula), maybe fractionated vegetable oil only. However Sodium Laurate is also sold as a chemical compound (white powder) for industrial use and is used for "cleansing, emulsifying or as a surfactant" by soap manufacturers. It can be made from petroleum or vegetable oil. Potassium Cocoate, on the other hand, is a natural surfactant, does not contain petroleum products and costs more than laurate surfacants. The new Tabac formula has replaced Cocoate's and Tallowate with "Laurate's". Fortunately you still have a choice, not for long I suspect, on which ingredients you would rather have in your Tabac shaving soap. I choose Cocoate and Tallowate over Laurate and I would hazard a guess, many wet shavers are worried about the change in ingredients based on their previous experience of other soap manufacturers switching out Cocoate and Tallowate.

 

[Atlantic59]

I am not a chemist or a soap maker, so I accept that the Sodium Laurate and Pottasium Laurate as detailed by Tabac on their products ingredients (new formula), maybe fractionated vegetable oil only. However Sodium Laurate is also sold as a chemical compound (white powder) for industrial use and is used for "cleansing, emulsifying or as a surfactant" by soap manufacturers. It can be made from petroleum or coconut oil. Potassium Cocoate, on the other hand, is a natural surfactant, and does not contain petroleum products and costs more than it's laurate alternative. The new Tabac formula has replaced Potassium Cocoate and Sodium Cocoate with "Laurate's". Fortunately you still have a choice, not for long I suspect, on which ingredients you would rather have in your Tabac shaving soap. I choose Cocoate and Tallowate over Laurate.

Coconut oil has ~50% Lauric Acid in it naturally as it comes from the tree.

You are missing the fact that Sodium Laurate was already in the old formula Tabac as part of the Sodium Cocoate (50%). Similarly, Potassium Laurate was already there as part of the Potassium Cocoate (50%). The labeling has changed to reflect a different production process, but that does not mean the ingredients are synthetic. It is just a different way of specifying the ingredients, which is allowed under regulations.

True, the new formula does not have Tallow. However, it does have a lot of stearic acid. Tallow contains about 20% stearic acid naturally. The stearic acid in the new Tabac may have come from animal or vegetable sources. The label does not tell you enough to know for sure.

The ingredients in the new formula Tabac are of similar cost to the old formula, perhaps even more expensive (it is hard to know). Tallow is a dirt cheap byproduct of animal slaughterhouses. Coconut oil in plain form is probably cheaper than in fractionated form. So, I think it's incorrect to consume this change was made as a cost-cutting move. It's more likely to be related to cosmetic regulations under the EU.

 

[clickity-click]

Coconut oil has ~50% Lauric Acid in it naturally as it comes from the tree.

You are missing the fact that Sodium Laurate was already in the old formula Tabac as part of the Sodium Cocoate (50%). Similarly, Potassium Laurate was already there as part of the Potassium Cocoate (50%). The labeling has changed to reflect a different production process, but that does not mean the ingredients are synthetic. It is just a different way of specifying the ingredients, which is allowed under regulations.

True, the new formula does not have Tallow. However, it does have a lot of stearic acid. Tallow contains about 20% stearic acid naturally. The stearic acid in the new Tabac may have come from animal or vegetable sources. The label does not tell you enough to know for sure.

If I understand you correctly, and I may not, my previous use of the word "synthetic" is the issue you have. I accept the Laurate's used by Tabac in their new formula may not be synthetic. From what I understand from soap makers, their is a signicant cost difference between Cocoate / Tallowate and Laurates.