Hey guys, I recently noticed that one of my straights aren't shaving quite as well as it used to. I reviewed my stropping technique and found that my strop was mounted a little too high. So, I took care of that and stropped my Dovo up this morning and it shaved a little better, but I still had some pulling on my neck and some irritation (nothing compared to last time I used it though). I've decided to keep on with stropping like that since it gave me good results, but the razor needs a touching up (it's been about 3-4 months) so I've decided to get a hone. I'm currently looking at the Naniwa 10k and 12k hones, but not sure if I should get one or which grit I should purchase. I'm looking at buying from SRD, but am open to suggestions if anybody knows of a better hone for my intentions or of a lower priced, yet good quality hone that will get it done. Like I said I'm looking at the Naniwa hones and have heard good things about them, but have also heard they are relatively soft and require regular lapping. Any help is appreciated guys!
Need to get a hone
- Thread starter wolfmanxiii
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The Naniwa 12k is a great choice.
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- #3
Thanks Holli! I didn't realize you were on here too...it's been a while.
By the way, I checked into my local tobacconist and found that they only have aromatic house blends unfortunately. The only English blend found at all in there is Sam Gaweth Bracken Flake since they sell a few "big name" blends. I'm hoping to get my hands on some GL Pease Charring Cross if I can though. I heard they stopped making it, but I got to try some a while back, great stuff. Another friend of mine gave me a sample of The Tobacco Barn's Old Tavern blend, I haven't tried it yet though.
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bluefoxicy
My strop comes down to me at a 60 degree angle from horizontal, and is mounted at the top of a door o.o What's too high? I can make proper laps pretty damn fast.
I favor the Chinese 12k natural because it's hard as a rock; but it won't hold water, the water's only on the surface so you have to keep adding water. Plus it's like $25 shipped lapped from Poland, takes 2 weeks though.
That said, I don't have another 12k; but I do wish my 4k/8k Norton was made of the same stuff that my 12k Chinese is made of!
That's my 2 cents. I haven't tried the Naniwa 12k or 10k, I'm sure they'd be more consistent than the Chinese 12k I have though, which you may prefer.
Nani 12k is a popular choice, chinese 12k or a barber hone will probably be a little less expensive - all good!
I'm everywhere!!!!
The C12k gives a great edge too, but it's ridiculously slow - 100 laps is no joke. Very hard, so the initial lapping may be a pita, but after that you'll prolly never have to lap again.
I don't really recommend the C12k anymore. It seems that, due to the price point and speed, it's typically newer guys who end up getting it. Newer guys tend not to have a great stroke, and having to do 100 passes as compared to 10-15 on the Nani 12k means you are about 10x-7x as likely to make one bad pass and damage the edge. I also think the extreme slow makes playing with slurry more tempting, and I don't think it's advisable for new guys to mess with slurry until they really know what they are looking for in their edge.
+1. It is hard to beat.
I ordered a naniwa 12k from SRD recently after discussing this in some detail with Henry and Paul and some of the other members. I can report back later but it comes highly recommended by members with tons of experience honing...get one.
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bluefoxicy
Nods, I've made some mistakes but I haven't rolled the razor forward and trashed the edge yet.
I've considered the 10k as an intermediary step to a 12k... how's the 12k Nani compare to the C12k anyway?
My understanding is that it cuts a litter faster than the C12 so you need fewer strokes on the Naniwa...plus it's the more consistently performing hone between the two...that is why a lot of the senior members have switched to using naniwa's...
Between the Naniwa 10k or 12k, my understanding is that grit size is a non-issue...price comes into play...if you can get the 10k at a reasonable discount...get one...if they are very close in price...might as well get the 12k. When I was looking around for the 12k, I found a lot of placing that were out of stock right now...only SRD had some left.
If you're asking how the edges compare - I don't know. I've never really compared the two. Speedwise - based on the number of passes you need on each, the Naniwa is 7-10 times faster.
It's not that the C12k is unreliable - if you are willing to do 100 strokes you'll get there; it's trying to drop that number that makes in unreliable. Not all razors will need 100, but it's easier to just do 100 (even if it is more than you need) to know you got the edge where you want.
I can't compare the Nani 10 to the Nani 12 either - I've never used a Nani 10. I guess if price is a factor, that's something you have to weigh yourself - IMO price is part of "personal preference." But, given that the grits are so close, I bet if you follow with Chrome Ox or similar, you wouldn't be able to tell the two apart.
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- #13
Hey Blue, I don't know if there necessarily is a "too high", but more of a personal preference and a based on skill type situation. Most of the vets that I've talked to recommend to keep it about waist high and do so themselves. I was told by a guy last night that stropping at an angle like that can cause problems with inconsistency, so who knows, I'm just trying out what the vets tell me. In my situation though, I unfortunately didn't have a dull razor to practice stropping with before I started, nor did I have a throw-away strop to practice on, so my technique isn't perfect yet and I have to go a little slower, but I find it's easier to flip the razor without turning my wrist when it's at waist height as compared to chest/shoulder height. At the same time I could see the risk of slipping and dropping your razor on your face if it's mounted on the top of the door (unless you got some shorter doors or you're really tall, then again I could be wrong; I live in an older place with something like 13-15 foot ceilings so my doors are kind of tall).
Holli, is it really necessary to use chrome ox if I use a 10k to keep my edge touched up between full honings; will it make much of a difference? For now I'd just like to get a good hone for keeping the blade touched up, then later maybe get some for restoring, but am not sure if I should really be messing with chrome ox or diamond paste just yet since I'm still kind of new to this...If the 12k would do the job of keeping the razor touched up as long as I don't say drop it on the floor or something I'd rather go with that as it's only a $10-$20 difference in price from the 10k rather than having to buy another strop of some sort and worry about pasting it wrong when instead I could just get a 12k and a lapping stone. For some reason that just sounds a little safer to me, but let me know what you think
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I don't think you ever need chrome ox. You can shave off an 8k comfortably - everything after that is just gravy. I was just expressing that I bet the 10 and 12 are so close that I think chrome would totally eliminate the difference. Pure conjecture, of course. Either the 10 or the 12 will do it for you. And if you get one and decide you want to try the other, you can probably sell one back for $5 or so less than retail, so it's no biggie.
+1 on that. I use Chinese 12K as a finisher and I can definitely shave off Norton 8K if need be, BUT... I got a razor honed by Daniel Gauthier, a honemeister in Montreal, and he uses Nakayama Maruichi 30K stone as a finisher. Feels absolutely amazing, like a butter. CrO, which is close to 30K grit - 29.4K to be precise! - does not give me that smooth, buttery feeling. Making me think hard about getting a 30K stone...
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- #16
Thanks Holli! I'm just really hesitant about those pastes since I've heard the stories of people over-saturating things with the paste or over using the them, so I was concerned and hoping that I wouldn't need a paste as well as a hone. I'll probably go with the 12k; seems like you guys all like them and Lynn recommended it as well.
I really appreciate all the help I get from you guys; it's a good thing the internet is around because I don't think I could get this much advice and info. anywhere else since straight shaving isn't very common around here at least.
Natural hones don't have grit ratings.
It's not just the grit rating, it's the way it cuts. Not to mention pastes and hones act very differently.
It's not just the hones, it's the skill.
You are mistaken: Every stone has a grit rating, whether it is assigned, as for artificial stones, or measured, as for natural stones. The size of the particle determines the grit. Conversion to grit is sometimes difficult because natural stones do not always produce uniform particles, but it is possible because the dispersion range is not really wide.
I agree with holli4pirating and suggest that you read this from Bart's website. What he says about coticules goes for all natural stones.
I was going to tell you about the nature of experiment-based, scientific estimation, but then I remembered the recent debacle at East Anglia University and decided to stay quiet.
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