Naniwas and a hard Arkansas...and?

[TBoner]

I mentioned in another thread that I've got a friend who is offering to sell me a set of unused Naniwas at half price. I also like the idea of natural stones and am drawn to the idea of a hard Arkansas stone as a finisher. I know once I get into stones I'll probably want to try a coticule and a JNat and who knows what else. But practically speaking, would coming off a Naniwa 12K and then finishing on a hard Arkansas be pretty much all I would ever need honewise?

Forgive the ignorance I'm doubtless displaying in this post and question. I want to be efficient in terms of cost for right now, and this seems like a pretty good way to do it.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Yeah. You could also shave off the 12k, but most people prefer to go to something natural (and a Ark is a good choice), as modern synthetic stone edges can prove a lot easier to cut/tear skin with than most natural finishes.

Like you said, after that I'd probably look at getting a good Coti, a good Jnat, etc.... but yes, the Naniwa's and an Ark are certainly plenty for good shaves (assuming you have a decent strop and know how to use it).

The only other thing is if you're using the Naniwa's a LOT... you may eventually want a DMT or Atoma diamond plate to keep them flat.

 

[Basil]

I agree with the above post. Going up to 12k will give you a nice shaving edge which can be further refined by the ark.

Also the diamond plate is a must have, anyone who has a stone needs to lap it. I recently bought an atoma and realized I should have bought one years ago.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I agree with the above post. Going up to 12k will give you a nice shaving edge which can be further refined by the ark.

Also the diamond plate is a must have, anyone who has a stone needs to lap it. I recently bought an atoma and realized I should have bought one years ago.

I've basically lapped every stone I own one time... when I bought it. Of course I pretty much only buy naturals and only novaculites (which tend not to dish much) and finishers. I understand if you use whetstones at lower grits they do get out of true sooner or later.

 

[Basil]

I've basically lapped every stone I own one time... when I bought it. Of course I pretty much only buy naturals and only novaculites (which tend not to dish much) and finishers. I understand if you use whetstones at lower grits they do get out of true sooner or later.

I used to only have cotis which I thought I was doing a good job of keeping flat. Turns out I was not lol.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

A diamond plate is very useful. I use one to lap, raise a slurry, fix razors that need reshaping. I raise a slurry on most all my synthetic stones fir the beginning laps and it keeps my stones flat doing this. It also keeps them clean.

As far as naturals go, its something you have to try yourself and can get expensive if you jump in deep. Ive tried, Cnats, Jnats, arkies, Coties, Thuris, a a couple others that are not well known. The Jnats are what Im doing now, but I find myself going back to the Thuri most the time. Its an easy stone to learn and works! Gives comfort and keen on an edge. Id recommend trying one before you get too deep in the natural hole.

On a side note, Coties just **** me off! Its almost like the stone has a mind of its own. I can do the exact thing three times and will get one edge that is ok but not great. Next time a top notch edge. Then a few that just suck. Jnats are picky too but can give a keener edge than a Coti and are fun with all the different stones and Nagura that can be used. The Thuri works every time! As always, YMMV.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Coticules are a complicated beast. They're kind of the anti-thuringian. As consistent and alike as thuri's are... coticules are the wild variance. One coticule you can lean into and set a bevel, the next you can lean into and it won't make any difference. One coticule will pull up a thick slurry in ten strokes, the next you can hone on all day and no slurry.

That's part of the fun, honestly... I suppose it's like Jnats... but with less risk of buying some random toxic piece of garbage some eBayer is pulling out of the discard pile and selling to "Baka Gaijins" or some absolutely amazing stone that is stunningly gorgeous and perfect for some kind of wacky japanese saw, but that is useless for someone needing a razor finisher.

 

[Basil]

I agree my cotis are the same way they can be really weird sometimes even though you’re doing the exact same thing.

Jnats are really interesting with all the nagura options. I’ve been enjoying some mindless laps on the ark though lately.

 

[hydro-magic]

That's pretty much the setup I've settled on - Chosera 1K for bevel setting, Naniwa 5/8/12K and finish on a Dan's surgical black. The edges are really good. A DMT 325 is also good to have for flattening the Naniwas.

 

[Basil]

I really should have bought an ark ages ago. No fuss easy to use no tricks to figure it out.

 

[kohalajohn]

I agree with Basil about ease of use.

The complexity of jnats and cotis can be interesting and they have a long and interesting learning curve.

But in the meantime, we do have to shave.

The nani12 is a good finisher, but dishes so quickly that I now have to lap it before each use.

The .1u diamond balsa is a good finisher. But you have to do fifty laps each time you shave. And every two months you have to rebuild the balsa.

For me, a black ark is a good finisher. And I find if I use the ark frequently, being every Saturday morning, it maintains sharpness. Meaning I only have to use my mid range once and never again. That means I don't really care much about which tool I use for mid range.

 

[Toro Blanco]

Naniwa's and Arks is where it all started for me and still in my arsenal!

 

[bluesman 7]

The nani12 is a good finisher, but dishes so quickly that I now have to lap it before each use.

It is likely that you are chasing warpage rather than wear.

 

[kohalajohn]

It could be.

What I'm now doing with that nani12, is trying to convex it. I lap it every time, but now with a tiny concave ark. We'll see if I can build up a hill on that nani.

 

[eKretz]

You will be good to go. Buy it.

 

[TBoner]

Great input, guys. This is the route I'm going to go, then. I will probably buy the Naniwas within the week and then pick up an Arkansas soon. Noted about the DMT. I have read about other lapping options - clear acrylic sheets, glass, marble tiles...but the DMT seems foolproof and cheap, right?

I will be reading up on use of the whetstones but also on how to burnish the Arkansas. Looking forward to it.

 

[Namkcakram]

Great input, guys. This is the route I'm going to go, then. I will probably buy the Naniwas within the week and then pick up an Arkansas soon. Noted about the DMT. I have read about other lapping options - clear acrylic sheets, glass, marble tiles...but the DMT seems foolproof and cheap, right?

I will be reading up on use of the whetstones but also on how to burnish the Arkansas. Looking forward to it.

If it’s a Dans Ark just use it man.

Your edges will improve as the stone breaks in and becomes more polished, but they can give you a very real hair whittling edge straight out of the box with almost no experience.

 

[TBoner]

It'll be a Dan's. I have a couple of Dan's pocket whetstones I use on small knives and am very impressed with their quality.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Dmt's are foolproof for lapping stones (just make sure you don't get anything finer than a Coarse as they are not recommended for lapping stones). They aren't the cheapest option though. Sandpaper and a pane of glass or a flat piece of granite is probably that unless you are lapping a ton of stones or lapping severely dished ones.

 

[Gamma]

I'm not much of a fan of using a garden-variety modern hard Ark as a finisher. Some hard Arks are very hard, other are not and some are near the 'soft Ark' class. But an Ark in the upper register, comparable to a translucent, sure, that's a finisher. But a plain hard Ark? Nah, I would use that for refining soft Ark striations, and/or just setting up for a finer stone; like, 8k or 12k then hard Ark then trans Ark. Depends on the stones, hard Arks cover a lot of territory in the quality arena. But if it's a typical hard Ark, I wouldn't bother using it after a 12k unless all I wanted to do was smooth off a little harshness.
Nani 12k is a good stone, not the best thing since sliced bread but it's a solid stone. I can't imagine anyone dishing an N12k since they only need about 15-20 feather-light passes to finish a properly honed 8k edge.