Looking For Honing

[Jooky]

Ok, I don't know if this is really the appropriate place for this or not, but I am looking from someone to hone some razors for me. I have 3 vintage razors that almost, but not quite sharp enough to shave with. I have picked them up here and there from antique stores and ebay, but I do not own any honing stones, and to be honest, I don't know how to hone myself.

None of the blades are damaged, at least as far as I can tell, so I don't think they need any major work done to them, just honed. I have tried to strop them to see if that would get them shave ready, but it just doesn't do it. Are there any members here that would give me a good price to get these razors in shave ready condition? Eventually I would like to pick up a few stones and give honing a go myself, but that is a bit in the future.

I do have one shave ready straight that I am using 2-3 times a week. I picked up a Gold Dollar 208 from Ken Rup and have been very happy with it, but I would really like to give these vintage razors a try.

If this is in the wrong forum perhaps a moderator could move it for me.

Thanks!

 

[richmondesi]

Honemeisters

 

[Jooky]

Thanks, I sent a few PMs.

Looking at pricing (I am a cheap bastard) would it be cheaper for me to try to buy the stones I would need instead of sending out for honing? Obviously, it will be cheaper in the long run to do so, but what about now? It appears that it will cost me around $45.00 to get 3 razors honed, plus shipping them there and paying for shipping back. What is the bare minimum I would need for stones? I don't plan on rescuing blades that are in poor shape, merely sharpening ones in decent condition that already have a nice bevel set on them. Could I get what I need for around $50? I can poke around on the internet myself and find things that people suggest, but I would like some kind of consensus on what I need.

Thanks!

 

[Chimensch]

All you really need is a barbers hone, which you can get for your budget. Others will come along and recommend refinements that don't cost too much, but I touched up my razors for a very long time with just a barbers hone and was very happy with the shaves I got.

 

[mainaman]

All you really need is a barbers hone, which you can get for your budget. Others will come along and recommend refinements that don't cost too much, but I touched up my razors for a very long time with just a barbers hone and was very happy with the shaves I got.

not if the razor is blunt a s butter knife. Even a double sided one will not work imo, mainly because the learning curve. I'd advise that the razors are sent out for honing , then they can be maintained with pasted strops and barbers hone.

 

[Chimensch]

I don't plan on rescuing blades that are in poor shape, merely sharpening ones in decent condition that already have a nice bevel set on them..

Thanks!

not if the razor is blunt a s butter knife. Even a double sided one will not work imo, mainly because the learning curve. I'd advise that the razors are sent out for honing , then they can be maintained with pasted strops and barbers hone.

You didn't read and/or understand the OP. If you're just maintaining a razor with a good bevel, all you need is a barbers hone. Yes, restorations are another subject entirely.

 

[mainaman]

You didn't read and/or understand the OP. If you're just maintaining a razor with a good bevel, all you need is a barbers hone. Yes, restorations are another subject entirely.

In my humble opinion

I have 3 vintage razors that almost, but not quite sharp enough to shave with

means the whole 9 yards: bevel setting - finisher.

 

[Chimensch]

In my humble opinion
means the whole 9 yards: bevel setting - finisher.

Go back and read the original post. He's going to send those razors out to be honed. He was asking what he needed to maintain them after them come back honed.

 

[mainaman]

Go back and read the original post. He's going to send those razors out to be honed. He was asking what he needed to maintain them after them come back honed.

to which I also replied in my post...

 

[Chimensch]

to which I also replied in my post...

And incorrectly. I've been shaving with a straight for 30 years, 29 of them with just a barbers hone to keep it sharp. Once a razor has been correctly honed, a barbers hone is all you need to keep it sharp forever.

 

[mainaman]

And incorrectly. I've been shaving with a straight for 30 years, 29 of them with just a barbers hone to keep it sharp. Once a razor has been correctly honed, a barbers hone is all you need to keep it sharp forever.

which part

I'd advise that the razors are sent out for honing , then they can be maintained with pasted strops and barbers hone.

is incorrect?
You sound like the rest of the world maintain their razors the wrong way...

 

[AVH]

Looking at pricing (I am a cheap bastard) would it be cheaper for me to try to buy the stones I would need instead of sending out for honing? Obviously, it will be cheaper in the long run to do so, but what about now? It appears that it will cost me around $45.00 to get 3 razors honed, plus shipping them there and paying for shipping back.

You might be interested in this thread, or this website.

 

[Chimensch]

In my humble opinion
means the whole 9 yards: bevel setting - finisher.

which part
is incorrect?
You sound like the rest of the world maintain their razors the wrong way...

The OP asked what he needed after his razors were honed and you said "the whole 9 yards: bevel setting - finisher" which was incorrect because he doesn't need to do that after his razors are honed and because you were answering a question that he didn't ask. After I said "barbers hone" you said, "not if the razor is blunt as a butter knife" which was incorrect because you were responding as if I said he didn't need to send them out for honing but just needed a barbers hone which is ridiculous.

My opinion is that you don't read very well. You answer questions that weren't asked and then criticize answers because they don't answer the question that you wanted asked. If you meant to say that he needs to send his razor out for honing and afterwards all he needs is a barbers hone, then we agree.

 

[mainaman]

The OP asked what he needed after his razors were honed and you said "the whole 9 yards: bevel setting - finisher" which was incorrect because he doesn't need to do that after his razors are honed and because you were answering a question that he didn't ask. After I said "barbers hone" you said, "not if the razor is blunt as a butter knife" which was incorrect because you were responding as if I said he didn't need to send them out for honing but just needed a barbers hone which is ridiculous.

My opinion is that you don't read very well. You answer questions that weren't asked and then criticize answers because they don't answer the question that you wanted asked. If you meant to say that he needs to send his razor out for honing and afterwards all he needs is a barbers hone, then we agree.

you gotta be kidding me ...
This was my answer to your comment that started the whole thing...
the OP said
Eventually I would like to pick up a few stones and give honing a go myself, but that is a bit in the future.
which then led to my reply to your comment on the barbers hone, which I should have worded differently so its more clear what I mean.

second part of my original reply

I'd advise that the razors are sent out for honing , then they can be maintained with pasted strops and barbers hone

Read carefully please, looks like I said all that you feel like its correct so What's the point of arguing? Probably nitpicking a bit too much...
Anyway I'll let you continue by yourself.

 

[Jooky]

I love the internet.

Actually, to sort everything out, what I said originally was that I was looking to send out 3 vintage razors for honing. None of them are BLUNT, they will all shave the hair off of my arms, but they are not quite sharp enough to shave my face with.

After the link was posted to the Honemeisters thread I started looking at prices. At this point, I realized it was going to cost me $50 plus shipping to get my 3 razors sharpened. As a cheap bastard I sort of balked at this.

I then asked, what would I need to sharpen them myself? Chimensch then suggested a barbers hone, which sort of makes sense to me. None of my razors have bad edges, they just need some touching up, more touching up than what I can give them on a strop, but not so much that they need the bevel reset.


So, I guess now the question is: Would I be able to get by with just a barbers hone? Barber hones seem to be in somewhat limited supply from what I have seen. Or maybe something like a 12k Chinese Water Stone? These seem to be fairly common. Or does everyone think I need more than this? The Norton 4k/8k seems popular, but also seems a bit expensive to me.

Does this clear everything up? I hope so.

 

[Kelly siefkas]

Gentleman! Barber hones at dawn, bring your own hones and seconds, a physician will be provided.

 

[sigman]

I love the internet.

Actually, to sort everything out, what I said originally was that I was looking to send out 3 vintage razors for honing. None of them are BLUNT, they will all shave the hair off of my arms, but they are not quite sharp enough to shave my face with.

After the link was posted to the Honemeisters thread I started looking at prices. At this point, I realized it was going to cost me $50 plus shipping to get my 3 razors sharpened. As a cheap bastard I sort of balked at this.

I then asked, what would I need to sharpen them myself? Chimensch then suggested a barbers hone, which sort of makes sense to me. None of my razors have bad edges, they just need some touching up, more touching up than what I can give them on a strop, but not so much that they need the bevel reset.


So, I guess now the question is: Would I be able to get by with just a barbers hone? Barber hones seem to be in somewhat limited supply from what I have seen. Or maybe something like a 12k Chinese Water Stone? These seem to be fairly common. Or does everyone think I need more than this? The Norton 4k/8k seems popular, but also seems a bit expensive to me.

Does this clear everything up? I hope so.

Well, sending them out not only makes sure they are done correctly, but you now have a measuring stick against which to measure your own success.

They shave arm hairs, but so do sharp knives. No way to tell if they just need a touch up, or some more serious work.

You don't know who honed them previously. They could have used tape. If you tried to hone them yourself, you might be at it for hours with a barber's hone trying to hone a razor that was honed with three layers of tape. Assuming you use up to only one layer.

Honing is not rocket science. It can be learned. But it does require dexterity. Reading the forums, I think some people pick it up rather quickly, others struggle for many long hours. Anyway, thats not answering your question.

How much is your time worth? Yes, honing a razor may take you an hour, but what about the time to lap the stone? Yes, the stone must be lapped every so often to clean off the swarf buildup.

Anyway, check this link out. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=108403

 

[Jooky]

Thank you all for the replies. I have decided to go with a honing offer from Mainaman for right now and hopefully pick up some stones and give it a go myself in the future.

 

[Chimensch]

So, I guess now the question is: Would I be able to get by with just a barbers hone? Barber hones seem to be in somewhat limited supply from what I have seen. Or maybe something like a 12k Chinese Water Stone? These seem to be fairly common. Or does everyone think I need more than this?

In 1980, I bought a new Dovo Fritz Bracht, #41, Inox razor and a strop from Chicago Cutlery on Clark Street. The first shave tore up my face, I mean long scratches and blood. I went back to the store and asked the clerk, "is it possible that the razor's not sharp enough?" "No," he said, "impossible. The razors come sharp from the factory. You need to strop more." I stropped more. The second shave was the same. I went back to the store. This time my complaint was overhead by a customer who said, "He needs a hone." "No," says the clerk, "impossible. The razors come sharp from the factory." "I've been shaving with a straight for 30 years," says the customer, "and he needs a hone." I said I wanted the hone and the clerk sold me a Swaty "Three-Line". Six laps on the barbers hone and I got a perfect shave. In 29 years, that Dovo never saw anything but that Swaty. So the answer to the first part of your question is, "Yes, all you need is a barbers hone." They aren't made new anymore so, if you go that route, you will have to buy one used on eBay or from a member of one of the shaving forums.

Fast forward to April 2008: I stumbled on the Internet forums and started reading about how great this that and the other is, and I started to experiment. I've now got:
2 barber hones
1 coticule bout with slurry stone
1 BBW/coticule combo with slurry stone (about 4" x 2")
1 vintage BBW/coticule combo (about 6" x 1")
1 vintage coticule (about 8" x 2")
1 Norton 4K/8K with flattening stone
1 vintage Charnley Forest stone
1 Chinese hone
1 Japanese finishing hone and nogura
1 Mastro Livi loom strop with CrOx
1 4-sided paddle strop with Dovo Red, Dovo Black, CrOx and 0.25-micron diamond paste

When all is said and done, the only hone I actually use now is the 1"-wide vintage BBW/coticule, although all the other stuff works good, too. Why this stone? First of all, because a narrow hone is great for slightly warped blades, which are easy to sharpen on a narrow hone and more difficult on a wider hone (because the narrow hone forces you to do an X-stroke, which means the part of the blade being sharpened is always on the hone, even if it's warped). I have a 7-day set and 5 of them are perfect and can be (easily) sharpened on a 3"-wide hone and 2 are slightly warped and difficult (for me) to sharpen on a wide hone, but easy to sharpen on the narrow hone.

Second, although the edge off of a barbers hone is good. The edge off of a coticule is slightly better, both sharp and smooth. I like the edge off of the coticule a lot. New coticules are easily available.

Third, I'm lazy. I want something simple and fast. The pastes are nice but it's a second step after honing and the edge doesn't last very long. So, for me, it's more work more often. I don't like that.

Fourth, the coticules are very versatile stones. You can do everything with them from setting a bevel to polishing. Bart (one of my heroes) has a whole website about coticules.

The Norton 4K/8K does the job, but I hate it. It needs to be lapped frequently and is too big and heavy. I like to hold the hone in my hand (because I started with a barbers hone) and the natural stones don't need to lapped very often (if at all). I don't have any other synthetics, but I wouldn't buy any of them for the above reasons. Also, there's the romantic side of me. A straight is the most traditional way to shave and a natural stone is the most traditional way to sharpen a straight. Of the naturals, the coticule is king. The Charnley Forest stone is good, about the same as the Swaty and the Japanese hone is almost too sharp.

So, if you want to economize. A barbers hone is the least expensive, good solution. Next comes a yellow coticule with a slurry stone, the narrower the better (with slurry for setting the bevel and with just water for polishing). If you're willing to spend a little more, a BBW/coticule is ideal because (according to Bart and my experience confirms it) the BBW side with slurry gives a slightly sharper edge and the yellow side with water gives great smoothness.

A lot of people like the Chinese hone. I got a very hard one that took me hours and hours of backbreaking work to get reasonably flat on two sides (1 wide and 1 narrow) and is very, very slow. The edge I got did nothing for me. If I were you, I wouldn't waste my time with it.

 

[Jooky]

Chimensch, thanks for the information. I guess I will try to start out simple and pick up a barbers hone from either the B/S/T forum or ebay once I get my razors back. Reading some of the other advice on here it makes sense for me to send them out to get honed right now, that way I have a better idea of what they should be like when they are honed correctly.

The big question for me now is, how easy will it be for me to really muck up the edge of one while I am learning? I have a Gold Dollar I got from Ken Rup that he honed before shipping and I am pretty sure I haven't messed it up with poor stropping, so with any luck I will pick up how to hone fairly quickly. Do you think there is a bigger learning curve for honing or for stropping? If I can do one, can I do the other?

Oh, one more, are there any vintage hones that I should stay away from?

Thanks!