Load LESS Soap?Say it ain't so.

[Gio1]

I would like to get a few opinions on this idea. This mostly applies to face lathering.

I cook for a living and I found myself comparing the addition of water to shave soap to many of the emulsified sauces I make.

Emulsified sauces are funny (like the perfect Lather) they blend some type of fat with some type of base liquid and air to produce a distinctly different end product. Eggs, Butter and Acid simply stirred together don't look like much but add heat, proper ratios and technique you have the classic Hollandaise. Much like shaving soaps the key is the ratio of components.
If you add too much water to shave soap it breaks just like a sauce.

Getting to the point. If you have too much soap loaded into your brush you can't possibly introduce enough water to host the dynamics of emulsion within the limited space of the knot. It is like putting 30 egg yolks into a tiny stainless bowl and trying to blend in the 90 or so ounces of butter needed to make a proper sauce.

So I tried doing a quick 5 sec load of BM Cheshire instead of my normal 20. I found that it was much easier to build the perfect lather (I face lather). The Lather was much slicker and seemed to really come together. It's like it had room to develop and do it's thing.

This may already be common knowledge as I am fairly new to this (2 or so years) but I thought it might be helpful or at least worth a discussion.

I am interested in any comments or observations.

Thank you,

Gio

 

[August West]

I always wanted to shave with creme brûlée.

 

[SanKaloon]

Sounds like something I should try tomorrow morning.

 

[PMT]

Cool!

 

[Milhaus]

i agree.
More isn't more. whether its product or water. Its about getting the ratio right.

Now this is the disadvantage to using many different creams/soaps.....they don't all have the same magic ratio. Sometimes I think id do best if I forced myself to stay with 1 combination for at least a month at a time.

 

[chuck_diesel]

Good to know. Like using cella vs TOBS, I need less water with TOBS.

 

[Screech8710]

Interesting observation and hypothesis.

 

[bluesman 7]

I would like to get a few opinions on this idea. This mostly applies to face lathering.

I cook for a living and I found myself comparing the addition of water to shave soap to many of the emulsified sauces I make.

Emulsified sauces are funny (like the perfect Lather) they blend some type of fat with some type of base liquid and air to produce a distinctly different end product. Eggs, Butter and Acid simply stirred together don't look like much but add heat, proper ratios and technique you have the classic Hollandaise. Much like shaving soaps the key is the ratio of components.
If you add too much water to shave soap it breaks just like a sauce.

Getting to the point. If you have too much soap loaded into your brush you can't possibly introduce enough water to host the dynamics of emulsion within the limited space of the knot. It is like putting 30 egg yolks into a tiny stainless bowl and trying to blend in the 90 or so ounces of butter needed to make a proper sauce.

So I tried doing a quick 5 sec load of BM Cheshire instead of my normal 20. I found that it was much easier to build the perfect lather (I face lather). The Lather was much slicker and seemed to really come together. It's like it had room to develop and do it's thing.

This may already be common knowledge as I am fairly new to this (2 or so years) but I thought it might be helpful or at least worth a discussion.

I am interested in any comments or observations.

Thank you,

Gio

I totally agree. About a year ago, on a lark, I wanted to see how little soap I could use and still get a three pass shave. I found the lather worked much better when stretched almost as far as possible with water. I've never gone back to trying to shave with thick lather. I use all my soaps as sticks so it is very easy to judge the amount loaded.

 

[mftoms59]

On a serious note, it's all on the ratio of product, water & air, not to mention the size of the vessel (bowl, brush)... Now for something completely different...

I always wanted to shave with creme brûlée.

I'd go for the Hollandaise

Sounds like something I should try tomorrow morning.

The Creme Brûlée?????

 

[SanKaloon]

On a serious note, it's all on the ratio of product, water & air... Now for something completely different...


I'd go for the Hollandaise



The Creme Brûlée?????

Ha! Maybe the "less soap" Monday, the Creme Brûlée Tuesday.

 

[TallyShave]

Getting to the point. If you have too much soap loaded into your brush you can't possibly introduce enough water to host the dynamics of emulsion within the limited space of the knot. It is like putting 30 egg yolks into a tiny stainless bowl and trying to blend in the 90 or so ounces of butter needed to make a proper sauce.

I think the problem with this analogy (and theory) is that loading more soap isn't at all like putting 30 eggs and 90 ounces of butter into a tiny stainless bowl. At best, it's like using 3 eggs instead of 2. Between the brush and your face (or a bowl) there is plenty of space to create proper lather with a gram or so of soap.

If there is one thing this site has taught me, it's that the vast majority of lather problems people bring up are caused by too little soap/cream, not too much. Nothing wrong with using less if it works for you, but I imagine the amount of product it would require to be "too much" to make a proper lather is absurdly large.

 

[PeteB]

I realized this a while ago. Sadly, "experts" on here doing 100 twirls of a brush on their soap or 30 seconds of twisting and pumping give people the wrong idea. You need to try and see what works for you, but for me, 3 or 4 swirls on a soft soap or even a harder one with water on it, gives enough soap for a good shave.

 

[Cash_Stronomer]

Now that I've been into synthetics a little while, I noticed I need a lot less loaded. Just a few swirls for bowl or face lather.

 

[NCJack]

I, too, load far less than I've seen recommended, but I'm perfectly satisfied with the lather.

 

[stylinred]

Ive noticed the brush size determines the amount of soap you'll need too.... you may get a kick out of this being a cook, but before my badger brush arrived I was using a natural bristle Basting Brush to lather my creams! and it would only require a pea sized lump of cream to lather up my face for 3 passes and still have a lot left! Earlier today I finally got to use my silvertip and I needed about 3X more soap to get an adequate lather and it required a lot more swirls of the wrist!

I'm kind of contemplating if I should just stick with the basting brush lol

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

I think the problem with this analogy (and theory) is that loading more soap isn't at all like putting 30 eggs and 90 ounces of butter into a tiny stainless bowl. At best, it's like using 3 eggs instead of 2. Between the brush and your face (or a bowl) there is plenty of space to create proper lather with a gram or so of soap.

If there is one thing this site has taught me, it's that the vast majority of lather problems people bring up are caused by too little soap/cream, not too much. Nothing wrong with using less if it works for you, but I imagine the amount of product it would require to be "too much" to make a proper lather is absurdly large.

I agree with TallyShave. In my experience, water-logging a lather is a far greater risk than over-soaping or over-creaming. (The teenager in my head just laughed at "over-creaming.") If you get too much soap in the brush - which will result in a dry lather - all you need to do is dip the bristles in some water and re-infuse. Whether on the face or in a lathering bowl, adding in water is much easier than taking it out.

 

[BSAGuy]

Interesting theory. I'll have to give it a try.

 

[patten1969]

I imagine if you load too much soap, you just add water until the lather is correct, which you would do anyway no matter the amount of soap. It's not a matter of more or less, but the balance of water and soap.
If you want to see lather 'break' use a styptic pencil and then lather over it.
I also think Hollandaise would supply a slicker shave over creme brûlée. Thanks for the post!

 

[Rob G]

This sounds like something to try, I always have much to much lather left after a three pass shave. I bowl lather.

 

[Screech8710]

I think the problem with this analogy (and theory) is that loading more soap isn't at all like putting 30 eggs and 90 ounces of butter into a tiny stainless bowl. At best, it's like using 3 eggs instead of 2. Between the brush and your face (or a bowl) there is plenty of space to create proper lather with a gram or so of soap.

If there is one thing this site has taught me, it's that the vast majority of lather problems people bring up are caused by too little soap/cream, not too much. Nothing wrong with using less if it works for you, but I imagine the amount of product it would require to be "too much" to make a proper lather is absurdly large.

I think TallyShave is correct in that it would take a massive amount of soap or cream to make the egg analogy equivalent. Also, in that, regardless of the size of the brush, a face or a bowl increases the space that can be used for the lather.

I also gave this a try this morning to see how it would work out, but with cream from a tube, which would be more controllable. I really have no objective way of measuring variables in this so what I observed isn't entirely objective. I added a "pea-sized" glob of cream into my brush, as opposed to my normal "almond-sized" glob (so about half the normal amount), and face lathered. I noticed that my lather was very slick, but I wouldn't say is was significantly more slick than normal. It was also thin. My first pass went well but the lather wasn't as protective as it usually is. There simply wasn't enough lather in my brush for a second pass. Although slick, the lather was very thin and I could not get a good layer on my face and neck. I had to add more cream and build more lather in order to proceed.

I wouldn't say that your hypothesis is completely off the mark, as a wide variety of products mean a wide variety of ingredients, proportions, and processes. Also, I used cream instead of soap. It may work for some products, but not all. Water quality must also be considered, since it is highly variable by region or even a few miles and house to house.