J-NAT Sotne Questions (Nakayama, Ozuku)

[ridnovir]

Hello, I am thinking about buying a nice quality J-Nat stone (but do not want to brake the bank). I am looking for a hard final finisher.

My current progression is 1K Chosera, 3 K Chosera, 8K Kitayama, 16K Shapton, CrOx 0.5 m on balsa, Diamond 0.25m on balsa, leather strop. (I know the J-Nat is not really needed but I want to try it).

So the J-Nat would go after 16K Shapton (and would eliminate CrOx ).

After some research am I thinking that Nakayama Asagi or Ozuku Asagi would fit the bill. Do you agree? What would you suggest?

Is there any difference between stones mined in Nakayama and Ozuku mines if they are of the same Asagi color and strata is not listed (apart from price that is)?

Please take a look at those Ozuku stones and let me know if there is any difference between those? Hope Maxim can weigh in on this.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/Ozuku-Mizo-Asagi-lv-5-p/635.htm

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ohiratomae1.html

http://yhst-27988581933240.stores.yahoo.net/oozuku-natural-whetstone-11936119362103.html

Which One should I go for? Thanks.

 

[tlittle]

Japanesenaturalstones.com is probably the best resource to use off of that list. A lot of members here have bought from Maksim, and he's definitely very knowledgeable about what makes a good stone for razor honing.

I'd say shoot him an email with any questions you have, and he'll be able to steer you in the right direction (and I hear he's got more stones than are listed on the site, but don't quote me on it)

As far as I know (and I'm an amateur compared to many on this site), as long as you get a good hard specimen you'll be fine. It seems most of the major mines provided quality stones (Nakayama, Oozuku, Shoubudani...er, others as well), so as long as you buy froma reputable source you'll be in good shape.

I've used an Oozuku with nashiji and Nakayama Asagi. The nakayama was a lot harder and gave me better results, but I'm sure it all comes down to the skill level of the honer (ie, a better honer can get more out of a softer stone)

 

[Doc226]

I'm sure Gamma will weigh in soon.

The JNS stone is very similar to mine, mine gives fantastic edges. It does take some time to learn, I have dulled the razor as often as I have improved it. Get a tomo nagura as well and play with it.

As to not breaking the bank, it's all relative. You can spend thousands on a JNAT.

 

[Drybonz]

So the J-Nat would go after 16K Shapton (and would eliminate CrOx ).

Yeah... a 5+ hardness rated stone from JNS can go after the 16k... or even replace your other stones. There's no way to determine grit, but a 5+ stone, to give you a feel of where it might land in your progression, would be like 30k-ish.

 

[Gamma]

There are softer stones that can be as equally fine as a harder one, and they can also be easier to use. From my perspective - all this LV/Hardness chatter is extremely subjective - what is Lv 5 to one person is apparantly not Lv 5 to another.
Some hard stones are finer than others and some are also faster than others. Some - are slow as snot but fine as heck and they will bring up an edge that's sublime if you have good skills and a lot of patience.
Hardness is not indicative of fine-ness, and fine-ness (grit) and speed are not contingent upon hardness. Hardness is a completely seperate quality.
I don't have a 16k synth - but If I allow myself to guesstimate a bit, I would say that an Awasedo can be used to follow the stone before the 16k, and there would be no reason to use the 16k at that point.
I've purchased stones from each of those sellers listed, and I've done well with each purchase I've made. Choosing a stone is a personal thing, you can't tell what it's going to do by looking at it. I see nothing wrong with jumping in head-first with a 3-400 stone, but, please understand that you don't need to spend that much to get a quality stone and great edges.
I won't comment on your choices - as any comparison I would make could only be based on subjective opinion.

 

[ridnovir]

Three guys from Brooklyn (including me) ... eh.

I have been talking to Maxim from JNS he suggested that in my price range 300 I should go with Shoubudani Asagi which according to him are as good as Ozuku or Nakayama stones but cost less. Does any one have experience with Shoubudani stones?

 

[Gamma]

Don't judge a stone by the mine. Judge it by what Max tells you. He's honest, and he knows his inventory very well.

 

[Kentos]

Honing on a jnat is an art, honing on synthetics and sprays are a science.

At least that's my take on it. The end results are likely very similar, but it's all about how you got there. If I spent the same amount of time fooling around on a norton 4/8 I would/could probably get a pretty nice edge off that too. YMMV as always.


I like my Jnat edges a LOT .

 

[Drybonz]

Don't judge a stone by the mine. Judge it by what Max tells you. He's honest, and he knows his inventory very well.

+1... Max has been very helpful to me. His site has a lot of good information as well. Check out his blog from yesterday with compiled links to everything you need to get started.

Honing on a jnat is an art, honing on synthetics and sprays are a science.

At least that's my take on it. The end results are likely very similar, but it's all about how you got there. If I spent the same amount of time fooling around on a norton 4/8 I would/could probably get a pretty nice edge off that too. YMMV as always.

I agree with Kentos... I'm going through a phase of experimenting with synthetics right now... but I ultimately love my jnats and coticules the most. I actually struggle more with the synthetics... probably more because I learned on natural stones than anything else.

 

[DogHair]

I now finish on an Ozuku Asagi from JNS. I love it. It follows either a coticule or a Naniwa 12k. Great edges.