“It has a great trigger....so?”

[Acmemfg]

The 21-Foot Rule: Why Is It Important?
I often chuckle when reading the myriad of posts online (here and elsewhere) extolling the virtues of great feeling triggers and the wonderful sight picture you get with tritium sights. Etc., etc.....
Actually all that stuff has its place at IPSC matches and sunny afternoon range sessions. What gives me pause to smile a bit though is when all this stuff gets applied to the real world situation when the weapon designed to be used in a totally instinct driven reaction is in fact used in the aforementioned scenario.
Trouble on the way, two seconds to draw, fire, and hopefully neutralize the threat.
I just have no concept of how a nice crisp trigger break or the “advantage of night sights”, or other such jetsam is going to make much of a difference. Really.
Find some lucky soul who has survived an armed confrontation. Odds are he/she won’t remember a flipping thing about whether or not it was a gritty trigger, or had a 5 lb. or 7 lb. pull.
Such detail is well received in recreation oriented shooting. Hardly in save your life shooting.
But then...that’s only one way to look at things.

 

[KW Driver]

or... you can spend the hours and thousands of rounds, and more hours of draw to dry firing at characters on the tv so some of it comes together when it counts. you could even do stress events like pushups/burbies then fire to get the heart up and ruin some of those fine motor skills in training. because a panicked first time stress shooter is totally accurate, right?

and you could even mount a light on your combat piece and train with it so you don't necessarily need tritium sites while also trying to verify a threat/target at night. of course, it'd help to train with that too. because civil (not under color of authority or law) liability as a shooter sucks....

people don't rise to the occasion, they devolve to the level and quality of their training.

 

[OldGnome]

I’m no expert, but yes and yes.

 

[patten1969]

My Walther P99 QA has the same trigger pull every time and I train with it regularly. Train train train. I do like the idea of push-ups etc. as long as it's safety first.

 

[Acmemfg]

@kwdriver Well said

 

[KW Driver]

I do like the idea of push-ups etc. as long as it's safety first.

You’re only limited by imagination and range rules. Sprints and calisthenics do wonders for breathing, heart rate, etc....

 

[machinisttx]

I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer to enjoy shooting a firearm rather than suffering through the experience. Do I need a good trigger to put rounds on target at 21 feet? Nope. I've kept a full 50 round box of ammo on a 10" paper plate at 50 yards using a Keltec P11....trigger is like a staple gun. I am however, a lot more likely to be out practicing with a gun that has a butter smooth double action and a crisp single action.

 

[PreachTheWord]

I like having a nice trigger since I'm probably going to shoot my guns more at the range than in a self-defense situation. I train for both, but I spend more time shooting at paper than anything else.

 

[KW Driver]

I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer to enjoy shooting a firearm rather than suffering through the experience. Do I need a good trigger to put rounds on target at 21 feet? Nope. I've kept a full 50 round box of ammo on a 10" paper plate at 50 yards using a Keltec P11....trigger is like a staple gun. I am however, a lot more likely to be out practicing with a gun that has a butter smooth double action and a crisp single action.

I feel like you're missing the point, or at least mine. you're describing sport shooting. we were talking a life and death gunfight. each practice style has it's place, one might keep you alive.

 

[OkieStubble]

I like having a nice trigger since I'm probably going to shoot my guns more at the range than in a self-defense situation. I train for both, but I spend more time shooting at paper than anything else.

I was wonderin' where you been... I like really nice triggers too. It's why I shoot a Glock.

 

[simon1]

I was wonderin' where you been... I like really nice triggers too. It's why I shoot a Glock.

The 21-Foot Rule: Why Is It Important?
I often chuckle when reading the myriad of posts online (here and elsewhere) extolling the virtues of great feeling triggers and the wonderful sight picture you get with tritium sights. Etc., etc.....
Actually all that stuff has its place at IPSC matches and sunny afternoon range sessions. What gives me pause to smile a bit though is when all this stuff gets applied to the real world situation when the weapon designed to be used in a totally instinct driven reaction is in fact used in the aforementioned scenario.
Trouble on the way, two seconds to draw, fire, and hopefully neutralize the threat.
I just have no concept of how a nice crisp trigger break or the “advantage of night sights”, or other such jetsam is going to make much of a difference. Really.
Find some lucky soul who has survived an armed confrontation. Odds are he/she won’t remember a flipping thing about whether or not it was a gritty trigger, or had a 5 lb. or 7 lb. pull.
Such detail is well received in recreation oriented shooting. Hardly in save your life shooting.
But then...that’s only one way to look at things.

I feel like you're missing the point, or at least mine. you're describing sport shooting. we were talking a life and death gunfight. each practice style has it's place, one might keep you alive.

 

[nortac]

I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer to enjoy shooting a firearm rather than suffering through the experience. Do I need a good trigger to put rounds on target at 21 feet? Nope. I've kept a full 50 round box of ammo on a 10" paper plate at 50 yards using a Keltec P11....trigger is like a staple gun. I am however, a lot more likely to be out practicing with a gun that has a butter smooth double action and a crisp single action.

That's some good shooting with a Keltec P11! I think a staple gun has a better trigger than my Keltec P11. I should take mine to the range next time I go just for S's and G's. I do like a decent trigger on even my defensive handguns, it certainly makes an extended practice session more enjoyable. Many will argue that a target trigger is a liability on a defensive handgun and I won't dispute that. But with adequate training and practice, I think any reasonable trigger can be used safely. I have 3.5 lb triggers on my Glocks and about 2.5 on my 1911s, The long pull of my striker fired SIG 365 and Kahr PM9 is about 6, but is smooth and feels like less.

 

[OldGnome]

I was wonderin' where you been... I like really nice triggers too. It's why I shoot a Glock.

Indeed.

 

[jar_]

Speaking of "trigger Pull" and self defense close up civilian handguns, my Lyman Digital gauge only goes up to 12 pounds and so shows "Over" before the trigger on any of my "J" frame size revolvers has even begun to move, and that's true regardless of model or maker.

With the pocket pistols the general trigger pull in double action is considerably lower.

 

[Mick]

Snap shooting is far different than target shooting.

Spend some time at a sporting clays range.

Go from rest at your hip to target acquisition to track and fire then back to rest.

Instinct shooting does not require sights or smooth trigger pull.

It is brain connected to target with a firearm in between.

 

[Raissermesser]

While true, can't a heavy pull trigger pull off your aim with a hand gun? Thinking what I've seen with a small framed person and an old DA revolver. With the hammer cocked, no problem. Cocking through the trigger, the muzzle wandered.

 

[simon1]

While true, can't a heavy pull trigger pull off your aim with a hand gun? Thinking what I've seen with a small framed person and an old DA revolver. With the hammer cocked, no problem. Cocking through the trigger, the muzzle wandered.

Grip pressure can pull the muzzle off, along with not enough hand strength. A lot of people, shooting right handed, will increase their grip pressure at the moment of fire at the end of the trigger pull. This will pull the shot to the right. When shooting two handed if the support (left) hand increases grip pressure it will pull the shot to the left. Try it sometime and purposely increase your grip pressure with one hand at the end of the pull and you will see what happens. Grip the gun firmly, but not so hard that your hand is shaking and keep a constant grip pressure all through the trigger pull. Jerking the trigger will also throw a shot off.

A dime balanced on the front sight will help you develop a proper trigger pull.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX9WC_bvTQQ

 

[PreachTheWord]

I was wonderin' where you been... I like really nice triggers too. It's why I shoot a Glock.

Been around. Doing some research on a truck that I want!
...and buying soaps!

 

[Bakker1964]

I feel like you're missing the point, or at least mine. you're describing sport shooting. we were talking a life and death gunfight. each practice style has it's place, one might keep you alive.

When I was a Reservist, our battle rifle was the FNC1A1, in 7.62mm NATO. Great rifle. When we went to do our Rifle Qualifications we had an Warrant Officer from 1st RCR as our Reg Force instructor. We zeroed in our weapons at 100 yds, did our qualifications at 200 yards after some tweaking. Then, before allowing us to move out to 3, 4, and 500 yard ranges, he had us run a mile, with our rifles (no mags, safety first). When we got back to the range, he had us load and fire from the prone position at 100 yards. Most of us were lucky to hit 50% in the black with 10 rounds. Unload, safe the weapons, run back to 200 yards, and repeat. 10 rounds, and the BEST shooter in the platoon hit 3 in the black. It was a lesson we ended up repeating on subsequent shoots, and we DID improve as a result.

Train the way you plan to shoot, gentlemen.

 

[Raissermesser]

Grip pressure can pull the muzzle off, along with not enough hand strength. A lot of people, shooting right handed, will increase their grip pressure at the moment of fire at the end of the trigger pull. This will pull the shot to the right. When shooting two handed if the support (left) hand increases grip pressure it will pull the shot to the left. Try it sometime and purposely increase your grip pressure with one hand at the end of the pull and you will see what happens. Grip the gun firmly, but not so hard that your hand is shaking and keep a constant grip pressure all through the trigger pull. Jerking the trigger will also throw a shot off.

A dime balanced on the front sight will help you develop a proper trigger pull.

Noticing something from the video:

For shotguns and rifles, I put the first bend of my trigger finger on the trigger and squeeze. Is that incorrect? I was taught to squeeze the trigger, and that's the way I ended up doing it. For a cocked revolver, the video instructs putting the pad of the finger on the trigger, and only mentions the first knuckle in firing DA.

On increasing grip pressure: Is this something like a flinch reaction? I figured you'd have to "strong arm" a hand gun, like holding the handle of a radial arm saw, so that your muscles are tensed "just enough" and not limp, while maintaining a firm grip. With a radial arm saw, that's to prevent the blade carriage from yanking if the blade binds and losing control over the saw. Is "strong arm" the wrong technique for a hand gun?

If I ever do go for a revolver, I'll definitely have to practice with a dime on the muzzle. Are snap caps recommended when dry firing?