I still don't quite know what a bevel is. Is a bevel how both tips of the blade meet together like a triangle? If it isn't, I would like to be clear what it is. I would also like to know why a bevel needs to be reset.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Is this what a bevel is?
- Thread starter raccoonandbrush
- Start date
Yes, that is essentially what a bevel is. A bevel will need to be reset when, through use or abuse, it is no longer a nice triangle with the edges meeting at the correct angle.
- Thread starter
- #3
Really! I thought I was going to be wrong. Cool! That clears up a lot now.
The reason you might have been confused is that people use "bevel" with a second meaning: the side of the razor that is abraded by hone, i.e., the thin edge that reflects light. So, people say that a wedge has a wide bevel, a full-hollow a narrower bevel, etc. which isn't really talking about that edge that has a triangular shape, which is the actual bevel.
- Thread starter
- #5
I see, interesting.
I'll add my little illustration in the hope that it helps.
1) a nice new and sharp blade
2) the blade was used and the tip wore off . . . rather dramatically
3) the blade was stropped and a new point was restored
4) further use wearing down the tip
5) we could strop to remove the yellow bits and get to a sharp point shown in pink. . . but it is a less sharp point and since the point is shorter it will wear down more quickly
6) so . . . we reset the point by using a hone or hones to remove the pink and yellow leaving the red section so we are now back to that (1) new and sharp blade.
1) a nice new and sharp blade
2) the blade was used and the tip wore off . . . rather dramatically
3) the blade was stropped and a new point was restored
4) further use wearing down the tip
5) we could strop to remove the yellow bits and get to a sharp point shown in pink. . . but it is a less sharp point and since the point is shorter it will wear down more quickly
6) so . . . we reset the point by using a hone or hones to remove the pink and yellow leaving the red section so we are now back to that (1) new and sharp blade.
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I don't really follow your illustration. I have never seen a blade that looked like it was breadknifed from use shaving, I have never seen a strop that can sharpen a blunted razor, and I don't follow any of it from 4-6.
Sorry you are wrong . . . I just looked through my electron microscope and this is exactly how it looked. Same colours as I've shown here as well. Actually this is my razor and it is drawn life size.
When I look at Saturn the rings don't look like they did in my solar system mobile that used to hang above my crib either. Filthy lying scientists!
I refer to the bevel as Chimensch describes the second meaning. In other words, the area of the razor approaching the edge that is honed out of the original ground shape.
I refer to the edge itself as the edge. If a razor doesn't meet in a point (two dimensional representation), then I would say it doesn't have an edge rather than that it doesn't have a bevel. Although one could argue that both are true. I just find one phrasing more descriptive in my eyes.
I refer to the bevel as Chimensch describes the second meaning. In other words, the area of the razor approaching the edge that is honed out of the original ground shape.
I refer to the edge itself as the edge. If a razor doesn't meet in a point (two dimensional representation), then I would say it doesn't have an edge rather than that it doesn't have a bevel. Although one could argue that both are true. I just find one phrasing more descriptive in my eyes.
I think this is pretty good, except for the part about stropping. If the strop is coated in diamond paste, then yes. Plain leather does extremely minimal edge formation, mostly it just re-aligns the fine edge that gets put out of alignment by interaction with your whiskers.
I would highly suggest searching out Bart's illustrations on bevels , how bevels wear, convexing bevels, etc:
Although Bart and I don't always agree 100% on everything, his illustrations and explanations, are some of the most detailed and exact you will find...
No offense intend to anyone else..
Although Bart and I don't always agree 100% on everything, his illustrations and explanations, are some of the most detailed and exact you will find...
No offense intend to anyone else..
**disclaimer: i do not own any straights (yet) so i will have to bow to the knowledge of those that do, but i'm confused on point 5 above.
how does that work? once you've made a longer and thinner edge, wouldn't it be destroyed much quicker than one that has more material behind it (proportionally)?
imagine cutting a tree with an axe that has a leading edge the thickness of a sheet of paper. the leading edge will be destroyed very quickly. now, imagine going after that same tree, only this time with a typical axe with a 'wider' bevel. it will last much longer doing the job.
...right...?
**disclaimer: i do not own any straights (yet) so i will have to bow to the knowledge of those that do, but i'm confused on point 5 above.
how does that work? once you've made a longer and thinner edge, wouldn't it be destroyed much quicker than one that has more material behind it (proportionally)?
imagine cutting a tree with an axe that has a leading edge the thickness of a sheet of paper. the leading edge will be destroyed very quickly. now, imagine going after that same tree, only this time with a typical axe with a 'wider' bevel. it will last much longer doing the job.
...right...?
Well now . . . getting into whole different beasts with axes and knives.
Perhaps I have done a disservice in sharing my thoughts on this issue. Sorry.
On this specific issue my thought is that the thiner the blade the easer it is to strop to a point that you can comfortably shave with. Also with a thiner edge this ability to bring the edge back quickly to shaveability will remain for a longer time than an axe or a razor that needs to have its edge set.
Regardless of what the rest of the razor looks like, the thickness of the blade at the bevel is always the same at any give height (i.e. if you move .05 mm up from the edge - towards the spine - and are still on the bevel, the thickness will be the same). Well, approximately the same. This thickness is determined by the bevel angle. So all bevels with the same angle will have the same thickness. So, in essence, the geometry of every blade, right at the edge, is approximately the same. So whether a bevel is wide or narrow, it should hold up about the same and it should respond exactly the same to stropping.
It is not stropping, but honing, that sharpens an edge. Hollower grinds will hone up more easily.
I agree with you. Bart's illustrations and explanations are really top-notch. This is courtesy of Bart's great website: Coticule.be
For more information, check out his Coticule Sharpening Academy
I agree with you. Bart's illustrations and explanations are really top-notch. This is courtesy of Bart's great website: Coticule.be
For more information, check out his Coticule Sharpening Academy
This is where I was heading. My little pics made sense to me.
Happy shaving
