Is this spine wear normal?

[SliceOfLife]

A bevel being imperfect isn't necessarily bad honing. The grind could be imperfect or the blade may have warped. If you're buying a new razor, then yes, a straight bevel is something you're looking for. If when honed properly, a bevel isn't straight, that's not something to fix. The creation of the uneven bevel is already "fixing" the fact that the steel extends further in a direction perpendicular to the edge than in the opposite direction.

As long as it's cutting evenly down the length of the blade, a bevels shape isn't too important.

And no, there's nothing wrong with that spinewear. I've honed plenty of razors for the first time ever and gotten much wider spines as a result. It all depends on how the razor was ground.

But yeah, fix the frown.

Truth be told, I'm not sure what guys do to cause frowns. My suspicion is pushing down enough to flex the blade inwardly into the hones (the spine doesn't flex, but the edge does, and it flexes in at the center, resulting in the center honing much too far back). To fix them I just hone a little heavy on the toe and heel. If I overshoot and get a slight smile, no big deal, it'll go away with time. This could also be a problem we see with new honers starting to flock towards these convex hones now, which require a degree of freehand technique... not as much of an issue when finishing... but if new honers start beveling and grinding on convex stones, we're gonna see a lot more frowns as a result.

Of course, the really BAD frowns are probably caused on a grindwheel or buffer wheel. If your honer was using these, he's clearly lacking the skill necessary to pull it off, and I would not ask him to repeat in an attempt to fix it. If he just failed to notice and fix an existing frown, then he could probably fix it by grinding the toe and heel back about a mm each.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Slash, generally I agree with everything you're saying in these two posts, but I wonder about that little frown. You seem to be saying don't worry about it. I'm not suggesting he should be worried about the frown but (and this is just me being curious) is he doing something to cause the frown and will it be likely that the frown will increase over time?

Were he to decide to "fix" the frown and/or his technique causing the frown would you suggest something?

Yeah, I know you deliberately didn't go there, and I'm not quite sure why. We've got three photos showing a bit of a frown. I've always heard smiles are okay but frowns are bad. Again, I'm not arguing, but just curious, are frowns sometimes not to be worried about and okay like smiles?

Here's the straight edge I have and recommend. I'm sure there are others, but this one is great. One side of this is extremely straight (the other isn't), but one is all you need.

Should the OP decide to use a flattening plate here's one larger than any of my stones. It's done a good job for me but will like all flattening stones eventually need to be flattened or replaced. I check mine with the straight edge and it's holding up quite well so far. Not saying this is as good as what Slash advised, but it's what I use.

When looking for a marble or granite tile for lapping and such I take the straight edge to the store with me. Some tiles aren't flat in my experience. Locally I can't find granite and am stuck with marble. I could easily order granite but haven't and probably should.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Slash McCoy]

If there IS a frown, proper honing will fix it. And the sharpie test will reveal it, if the hone used is verifiably flat. Lapping film on high quality 3/4" thick acrylic will get around a lot of variables inherent with stone honing. If in fact a frown exists, then the best option is to set up a lapping plate with sandpaper, grit appropriate to severity of the frown, and hone until it is nearly gone, then begin progressing up the grits such that at the 1k-2k level, the frown is entirely gone and a good bevel exists along the entire edge, with the possible exclusion of the extreme ends if they are not cooperating.

Marble is fine, BTW. Cut and polished stone is usually flat enough for our purposes. Ceramic tile almost never is.

 

[SliceOfLife]

It wasn't obvious at first, but yes there is a frown. about 0.5-0.75mm depth is lost in the center of the blade according to the scientific method of blowing the picture up and holding a ruler up against the screen.

 

[Slash McCoy]

A bevel being imperfect isn't necessarily bad honing. The grind could be imperfect or the blade may have warped. If you're buying a new razor, then yes, a straight bevel is something you're looking for. If when honed properly, a bevel isn't straight, that's not something to fix. The creation of the uneven bevel is already "fixing" the fact that the steel extends further in a direction perpendicular to the edge than in the opposite direction.

As long as it's cutting evenly down the length of the blade, a bevels shape isn't too important.

And no, there's nothing wrong with that spinewear. I've honed plenty of razors for the first time ever and gotten much wider spines as a result. It all depends on how the razor was ground.

But yeah, fix the frown.

Truth be told, I'm not sure what guys do to cause frowns. My suspicion is pushing down enough to flex the blade inwardly into the hones (the spine doesn't flex, but the edge does, and it flexes in at the center, resulting in the center honing much too far back). To fix them I just hone a little heavy on the toe and heel. If I overshoot and get a slight smile, no big deal, it'll go away with time. This could also be a problem we see with new honers starting to flock towards these convex hones now, which require a degree of freehand technique... not as much of an issue when finishing... but if new honers start beveling and grinding on convex stones, we're gonna see a lot more frowns as a result.

Of course, the really BAD frowns are probably caused on a grindwheel or buffer wheel. If your honer was using these, he's clearly lacking the skill necessary to pull it off, and I would not ask him to repeat in an attempt to fix it. If he just failed to notice and fix an existing frown, then he could probably fix it by grinding the toe and heel back about a mm each.

That is one way that a frown can be created. A very common way, actually. Pressing a finger onto the central portion of the blade. The more the blade flexes, the more excessive love the central portion of the edge gets.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Be careful about photo frowns. Sometimes a particular lens distorts the image enough to make one! Make sure there is a problem before solving it. And remember that ordinary proper honing with properly set up honing media will eventually make it go away. Carefully standing the razor on edge, on a verifiably flat surface, backlit with a bright light, will tell you a lot, if the frown is significant. A sharpie will, too, and it will detect a very small frown, if the honing surface is very flat. Which is a good reason to do this with film on high quality cast acrylic, such as from TAP Plastics, a company that BTW I do not own shares in, and do not receive any consideration for shilling, if anybody is wondering from all the times I have recommended that source for acrylic.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Great stuff...Very helpful to me. Thank you, gentlemen.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[SliceOfLife]

True that. You should measure it yourself and see if there actually is a frown or if it’s just the perspective of the photo you took.

That said, the light test is plenty accurate imho... the sharpie test can give false positives due to a persons honing technique. If you can't see light from the back with the blade on a flat surface, you're good to go.

 

[Namkcakram]

I think we’re all making something out of nothing here. I always frown in photos, but I’m never a sad person.