Is this spine wear normal?

[AS100]

Hi, I am new to Badger & Blade. I enjoy shaving with my straight razor. I bought my razor new but it was professionally honed before it was shipped to me. I would like to ask about the spine wear on my razor. I attached a picture. There is a line of wear on the spine, and the line of wear is slightly wider towards the shoulder. Is this amount of wear normal? Also, should I be concerned that line of wear is not uniform in width? I noticed that the spine of the razor is slightly thicker in the area where the line of wear is wider.

I have a Naniwa 12K finishing stone that I use to touch up the razor. I have only used the Naniwa 12K stone several times since I have had the razor. I usually do around 10 laps with light pressure. I have never used any other stones or hones besides the Naniwa 12K. I am getting good shaves from the razor, but I wonder if there is anything wrong with my technique on the finishing stone that might be causing excessive spine wear. Is it possible that a lot of the wear is mostly from the initial honing done before I received the razor? I never paid attention to it in the past so I am not sure. Thanks in advance.

 

[Gamma]

Hard to be conclusive about the spine wear. Whether or not that amount of wear 'too much' or not really depends on what initial geometry was like; some reazors need to be honed a bit more than others. IMO, if the bevel angle is fine, then the spine wear is inconsequential. I would be more concerned about the questionable toe-wear, and what appears to be a frown in the edge. The upward curve in the edge could be be caused by lens distortion, or the camera angle I guess... but at a glance it appears to be a frown. The toe seems to have been hit pretty hard.
If your 12k is truly dead-flat, and your 'light pressure' is equal to what I define as light pressure - then I would suppose that your effort across 'several' (3-4 ish) sessions of 10 laps on that stone did not create the toe wear or the bulk of the spine wear. But, sometimes, some guys think their pressure is light when I think it's heavy, and sometimes they think their stone is flat when it isn't.

 

[Slash McCoy]

That.

It is probably fine. How would you describe the pressure you typically use? Do you hone in hand. or on a bench? What I consider light pressure is honing in hand and applying the weight of my hand or a bit less. Very light pressure, the weight of the razor only. The weight of only the razor, honing in hand, is usually optimal when finishing. If you can manage even less pressure, then good, but too little pressure can make it hard to control the razor. When refreshing an edge with a 12k Naniwa, I generally gave it 3 laps or so with hand weight pressure, then a dozen or couple dozen with only the weight of the razor, clean stone, maybe a bit of dish soap or lather on the stone and another dozen or two. I no longer refresh an edge with stones or film but that's how I did it and it worked pretty well. Those initial hand weight laps usually got me to a good level of stiction but if not, then a couple more. Remember, lap count itself is kind of incidental and not fundamental to the honing process.

Initial spine wear when setting the bevel for the first time can be substantial, depending on the razor. Doesn't hurt anything. The spine bevel does not have to have a consistent width along the whole blade, nor does it have to be perfectly symmetrical between back side and show side. Spine wear is not something I myself am particularly concerned about. What you want to avoid are UNNECCESSARY spine wear or wonky hone wear caused by bad honing habits. These habits are easy for a newbie to pick up if he bench hones. IMHO it is better to learn with the hone in hand. This makes balancing and regulating pressure easier. The more you try to "control" the razor with two hands on a stationary stone laying on a bench or counter, the greater the chance of picking up bad habits that will show in the razor.

 

[stone and strop]

Hi, I am new to Badger & Blade. I enjoy shaving with my straight razor. I bought my razor new but it was professionally honed before it was shipped to me. I would like to ask about the spine wear on my razor. I attached a picture. There is a line of wear on the spine, and the line of wear is slightly wider towards the shoulder. Is this amount of wear normal? Also, should I be concerned that line of wear is not uniform in width? I noticed that the spine of the razor is slightly thicker in the area where the line of wear is wider.

I have a Naniwa 12K finishing stone that I use to touch up the razor. I have only used the Naniwa 12K stone several times since I have had the razor. I usually do around 10 laps with light pressure. I have never used any other stones or hones besides the Naniwa 12K. I am getting good shaves from the razor, but I wonder if there is anything wrong with my technique on the finishing stone that might be causing excessive spine wear. Is it possible that a lot of the wear is mostly from the initial honing done before I received the razor? I never paid attention to it in the past so I am not sure. Thanks in advance.

To have slightly uneven spine wear - even from the get go is not uncommon.
So long as the bevel is there along the whole length.
It does seem like there is a slight frown which might be of concern but if you check it and its flat then no worries.
Your 12k with only a few strokes with light pressure will not cause a lot of spine wear and as you seem to have no problem honing and using the razor as is, then I say just enjoy the razor. No problems.
Having only 1 photo of 1 side does not give us a lot to look at. The spine wear is a little hard to see even with the photo provided.


The wear might be a little more pronounced now because you are using a stone that leaves a bright shiny finish. If it was finished prior with a natural or something that did not polish to that degree then it may have not been as noticeable.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Welcome to B&B, sir.

Nice Dorko! Do you know how it was honed prior to you receiving it? I'm just curious. More photos would be helpful, but you've already gotten opinions from true experts.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Namkcakram]

Welcome to B&B, sir.

Nice Dorko! Do you know how it was honed prior to you receiving it? I'm just curious. More photos would be helpful, but you've already gotten opinions from true experts.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Probably got ruined by one of those convex hone wielding weirdos!

I have an odd ball blade right now that always looks like it’s frowning but somehow honed perfectly fine. It’s really confusing me actually.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Probably got ruined by one of those convex hone wielding weirdos!

I have an odd ball blade right now that always looks like it’s frowning but somehow honed perfectly fine. It’s really confusing me actually.

If it's ruined I have a free to members only Dorko disposal service.

Gotta watch out for those, especially the insane convex Ark wielding weirdos. They are contagious, too, I hear.

 

[Namkcakram]

If it's ruined I have a free to members only Dorko disposal service.

Gotta watch out for those, especially the insane convex Ark wielding weirdos. They are contagious, too, I hear.

Absolutely. Everyone should steer clear until the seller lowers the prices into my range. Better yet anyone who’s purchased one and failed to hone a razor on the first attempt should just ship it my way and I’ll partially reimburse

 

[bluesman 7]

Sunday's Shave
'Clouds in Bone'

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Absolutely. Everyone should steer clear until the seller lowers the prices into my range. Better yet anyone who’s purchased one and failed to hone a razor on the first attempt should just ship it my way and I’ll partially reimburse

Are you nuts. They should pay you.

Spoiler: But...

My services are FREE and Rated A/OK.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Sunday's Shave
'Clouds in Bone'View attachment 989111

Wait. Where are we?

Definitely needs my services.

 

[Namkcakram]

Sunday's Shave
'Clouds in Bone'View attachment 989111

That razor is in need of some forced affection from a questionably skilled honer. PM sent for my free services.

 

[bluesman 7]

Wait. Where are we?

Definitely needs my services.

Ooops

Wrong thread.

 

[Hyloworks]

I will say that I sharpen/hone all of my razors and woodworking irons myself. In my experience with straight razors I would tend to agree with some of the posters before me in that if the cutting edge/bevel is even down the length of the blade then the hone wear on the spine is fine. Sometimes the spine isn't perfect all the way through its length and that will show in the way that it wears. Just always keep an eye on the bevel wear as you are honing. If the uneven spine wear begins to make your edge wear unevenly then you have a problem. Cheers!

 

[AS100]

Thanks for all of the detailed responses. I've attached additional pictures of the front and back of the razor. I'm sorry for the poor quality of the photos. I took them with my cell phone and unfortunately I don't own a better camera.

I think there is less spine wear on the back. Also, the edge indeed has a frown. When I carefully examine

the razor I can see that the edge is not perfectly straight, but it is not obvious unless I look carefully.

I believe my Naniwa 12K should be flat. I have used a DMT lapping plate on the Naniwa stone before each use. I watched some Youtube videos on how to use the Naniwa stones, and I have tried to apply the same technique. Basically I hold the razor in one hand and do X laps on the stone. It's hard to quantify the pressure I am using. I do use more pressure than just the weight of the blade, but I try to apply just enough pressure to make sure the spine and edge stay on the stone throughout the stroke. Next time I will try the technique described by Slash McCoy.

It sounds like if I am getting good shaves from the razor I can just enjoy it for now. By the way, how do I check the bevel? Am I simply looking for even wear along the edge? If I am getting good shaves, can I assume that the bevel is ok?

 

[Slash McCoy]

That you HAVE a proper bevel over the length of the blade is enough. The width of the edge bevel, like the width of the spine bevel, does not have to be consistent. Do you have a loupe or a microscope? A sharpie marker? Ensure first that only one or two laps is enough to remove ink from the bevel, at the very edge. If you have this condition, you are at least most of the way there.

Wonky honing is often caused or aggravated by honing on a bench. An experienced honer can get good results doing so, but a beginner should try honing in hand. Many errors are then self correcting. The razor and the hone can find their own alignment if you allow them to do so.

And let's back up a step. DOES IT SHAVE? If it aint broke, don't break it.

As for flatness of your stone, you can check this with a proper straight edge. Not an ordinary square, not a ruler. I have never been a fan of so called flattening stones. First of all, if they are not flat, you will not succeed with them. Second, when you attempt to flatten a hone with a lapping tool that is not larger in area than the stone you are lapping, you will of course have overrun. Hit or miss, on getting your hone flat. My preference has always to use a whole sheet of sandpaper carefully glued to a polished marble tile proven to be reasonably flat. A heavy piece of glass can work. Remember that glass is flexible, especially so if it is not very thick. A 12x12x3/4 piece of acrylic also makes a good lapping plate. A polished granite sink cutout from a countertop can be used to good advantage. Glue the sandpaper to it carefully with no bubbles or wrinkles or debris or excess adhesive. Draw a grid on the stone to be lapped, with a pencil. Rub until the grid is gone. Because slurry can cause uneven lapping, rinse and repeat. If it then only takes a few strokes to remove the grid, you got it.

The good news is that a hone that is not PERFECTLY flat can still be used to good result. If it is far out of true, you have your work cut out for you. Be sure to use a bit of an x stroke even on a full size hone that will take the entire length of the blade.

If flattening your Naniwa is giving you trouble, perhaps you should try 1u lapping film (plain back) mounted (with water only) on a 3 x 12 x 3/4" acrylic block. It will always be pretty darn flat.

Your task, when honing your own razor for your own use, is not to make it pretty. It is to make it shave with uncompromising efficiency and comfort. Keep your eye on the ball and don't sweat the SLDs. (Stupid Little Details)

 

[Slash McCoy]

And one more thing. The importance of the bevel is that both sides meet somewhere. The bevel is a plane. Two planes, actually. If they meet somewhere out there, beyond the edge, you don't have a good apex. The apex is what shaves or refuses to shave. The apex should be just that, the apex of a triangle, tiny and sharp. If there is no steel where those two planes intersect, you are not there... yet.

 

[Twelvefret]

It sounds like if I am getting good shaves from the razor I can just enjoy it for now. By the way, how do I check the bevel? Am I simply looking for even wear along the edge? If I am getting good shaves, can I assume that the bevel is ok?

For me, if it shaves good it is good. That said, maybe a good shave could be a great shave. My limited experience with my collection is that some razors provide a better shave than others and some require less effort even though they all will work. However, I am dealing with old/ancient used and abused razors and not a nice new one like yours.

 

[Jnatcat]

Looks to have just a tiny frown, I would tape the spine and do a sweeping x stroke to slowly work that frown out of it and after a few honings it should be gone

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

And one more thing. The importance of the bevel is that both sides meet somewhere. The bevel is a plane. Two planes, actually. If they meet somewhere out there, beyond the edge, you don't have a good apex. The apex is what shaves or refuses to shave. The apex should be just that, the apex of a triangle, tiny and sharp. If there is no steel where those two planes intersect, you are not there... yet.

Slash, generally I agree with everything you're saying in these two posts, but I wonder about that little frown. You seem to be saying don't worry about it. I'm not suggesting he should be worried about the frown but (and this is just me being curious) is he doing something to cause the frown and will it be likely that the frown will increase over time?

Were he to decide to "fix" the frown and/or his technique causing the frown would you suggest something?

Yeah, I know you deliberately didn't go there, and I'm not quite sure why. We've got three photos showing a bit of a frown. I've always heard smiles are okay but frowns are bad. Again, I'm not arguing, but just curious, are frowns sometimes not to be worried about and okay like smiles?

Here's the straight edge I have and recommend. I'm sure there are others, but this one is great. One side of this is extremely straight (the other isn't), but one is all you need.

Should the OP decide to use a flattening plate here's one larger than any of my stones. It's done a good job for me but will like all flattening stones eventually need to be flattened or replaced. I check mine with the straight edge and it's holding up quite well so far. Not saying this is as good as what Slash advised, but it's what I use.

When looking for a marble or granite tile for lapping and such I take the straight edge to the store with me. Some tiles aren't flat in my experience. Locally I can't find granite and am stuck with marble. I could easily order granite but haven't and probably should.

Happy shaves,

Jim