Is this a real live Washita?

[Alum of Potash]

Following the old accounts, I've soaked modern production soft Arks in oil for two-three days to saturate them. From this, they seem plenty porous, perhaps even more so than the Pike's lily white and Norton no. 1 I've used, although all of them are relatively long-wearing by my standard. I'm just suggesting that soft Arks might be considered as a sub-category under a wider Washita umbrella. That said, I do think that the some of the period Washita binders I've experienced have been something special. Right now, I've got one that seems to be a translucent matrix with more aggressive particles (the peppery stuff) floating in the mix. My sense is that a translucent or a black Arkansas can wear down the teeth of such a doberman--or at least a lily white doberman.

 

[Gamma]

Washita, soft/hard/trans/etc Ark - all the same thing, high 90s silica percentile novaculite.
The difference is porosity/specific gravity. Washita are softer soft Arks.

The confusion is with the white stone mined by Pike/Norton. Still Novaculite, seemingly with a different sort of structure than the regular Washita. The calling card was consistency throughout the stone - no too-soft spots and no major flaws. I've read it was mined in New Hampshire, not Arkansas - that makes it seem like the 'Washita' moniker is more of a borrowed term here. If it was just processed in NH, then it very well could be some sort of hybrid stone layer that was only known to be from that one location. I'd have to suppose that the stones porosity was the determining factor. Otherwise, logic says it would just be another soft or hard 'Ark'. Part of me thinks it's just a more pure variant of Washita and that's that. If only Norton would produce a book that describes every type of stone they've ever produced in detail. Dream on - they seem to want to forget the old days completely.

From one stone to another stone, there will be differences of course, and since I'm guessing that not every stone was tested, there will probably be some soft arks that are more Washita-ey and some Washita that are more 'soft Arky'. I do think the 'graded' white Washita underwent a consistent selection process though.
Just like not every vintage hard Ark is of (what we now call) the translucent variety, some are just 'hard'.

I remember a woodworker guy writing about a ruby red Washita once - anyone know what that is?

 

[David]

I remember reading about those stones a while back but I thought they called them rosey reds? I don't know...I just remember them saying they were softer and faster than a lily white. I'll see if I can find a link

 

[Alum of Potash]

About the NH Washita source, I posed some questions about this a couple of years back. The consensus was that I was confusing Pike, the company, being based in New Hampshire, with the stone in question. Pike (later Norton) bought up the Arkansas mines and so the Washita was from Arkansas, and that was that.

Pike did start out in New Hampshire though. A stone was mined there, which is perhaps a topic for another thread.

 

[Gamma]

A consensus from an internet forum doesn't neccessarily constitute an irrefutable fact.
I suppose where the stone was mined doesn't matter one way or another though.

 

[Alum of Potash]

I think it's safe to say that the Washita lives in the Arkansas-Oklahoma region. Where a stone is mined makes a difference to me for some reason.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I doubt that the lily white came from New Hampshire as Norton did a run of lily whites about 10 years ago and at the requesy they had responded by saying we own the mines, I don't see why we can't do a run of them.

 

[Gamma]

If the Lily White turned to be from New England or New Jersey - it wouldn't bother me one bit. It's a rock. If it works, then it works.
End of story for me.

At any rate - I'm fairly certain that they did in fact come from Arkansas.

I just didn't have any data proving that on hand. To me - online banter doesn't qualify as such.

I no longer have the old geological surveys saved to my HD...
But I did turn up this while looking for the red Washita...

From"Audels Carpenters and Builders Guide", 1923.

Natural Oil Stones.-There are two general classes of natural stones
grouped according to locality where found, as 1, Washita, and 2, Arkansas.
Washita Oil Stone.- Washita stone is found in the Ozark Mountains of
Arkansas, and is composed of nearly pure silica, very similar to the
Arkansas, but much more porous. It is known throughout the would as the
best natural stone for sharpening carpenter's and general wood workers's
tools. Its sharpening qualities are due to small, sharp pointed grains or
crystals, hexagonal in shape and much harder than steel. It is found in
various grades. from perfectly crystallized and porous grit to viteous
flint and hard sandstone. The sharpness of grit depends entirely upon its
crystallization. The best oil stones are made from very porous crystals.
Lily White Washita is the best selection or grading of natural
Washita, perfectly white in color, uniform in texture and nicely finished.
Rosy Red Washita has an even porous grit somewhat coarser than the
Lily White grading and is therefore faster cutting.
No. 1 Washita is a good oil stone for general use, where a
medium-priced stone is wanted. It is far superior to the many cheap
so-called "oil stones" on the markit that are only sandstones with a
polished face, but it is not as uniform as the Lily White.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Likewise. I couldn't care less where Washita's come from, but I think claims that they came from new hampshire are most likely, as was pointed out, due to someone misreading a Pike Washita label.

 

[David]

Keith, thats where I read about the rosey red. IIRC it was on a really old forum from the 90's maybe?

 

[Gamma]

Might have been a newsgroup. I already killed the page. But yeah, and old place on the 'net.
I had read that before - but not for a good long while.

 

[eKretz]

Checked S.G. the best I could today - looks like right at 2.20 - although that was right after another ultrasonic Simple Green soak and I'm not sure how porous/spongy this stone is - I'll check again after it sits a couple days.

 

[eKretz]

Another funny thing - I kept going back to the ultrasonic bath because I thought the stone was still greasy - I had been taking it out and giving it a quick scrub - 3 or 4 swipes - with a wire brush on the darker greasier spots when it was really nasty, and after they were cleaned up I gave it what was to be the final wire brush scrub, but then the area around the darker spot stated looking like it was smearing grease/oil around so I'd put it back in the bath for a while and try again. After I did this 3 times I happened to give the stone a quick rinse with the faucet and watched the "grease spot" slide right down the stone and fall into the sink! It had been swarf from the wire brush the whole time! Damn that stone cuts fast!

 

[SliceOfLife]

Washita's can be pretty porous. The LW's seem to be a LOT tighter than lower grades, but the lower grades have plenty of gaps inside to take on oil (or water if they aren't already oil-soaked).

And yeah, the stones are monstrously fast. They competed with and were usually preferred to synthetics, remember. In my opinion for many uses (most tools, not so much razors), I think the only reason washita's went out of favor is that grinding wheels became cheap enough everyone who wanted one could get one in their garage, and no matter how good a Washita is, it's not going to be faster than a motorized grinding wheel with a 60-grit corundum wheel on it... I've got all kinds of synths down to 100 grit or so, only time I break them out over my Washita's is to remove large chips or make short work of an absolutely wrecked edge. For resetting an edge that's worn down to dull through normal use, the Washita's just about as fast, and I can work (with most knives) off the washita... try that off a 100grit india and you'll be a sad panda.

 

[Jayber Crow]

Washitas are a one stop shop for edge tools. I raise a burr on a plane blade or chisel, remove it with light pressure, then strop with a rouge charged leather paddle. best sharpening system for woodworking tools I've tried.

Haven't used it on a straight yet since I've relegated it to that use.