I need to whine a little.

[Rick Sparks]

I've spent about 20 hours trying to get a shaving edge on several straights. After one sort of success I seem to have lost it altogether. I start on a 1k Norton stone till I can see an even bevel all the way across. Then I go to the 4k. I can kind of shave a few hairs off my arm after 50 to 70 strokes (x-pattern), then I go to the 8k and try to do no moe than 25 strokes. I'm trying to make these strokes with no more pressure than the weight of the razor. I then take the blade to the linen strop for 25 strokes and then the leather for 35 strokes. Then I try to shave. And the blade is too dull.

I've watched Tony Cornado's videos over and over. I'm feeling really clumsy and dumb. Wah!

 

[Thebigspendur]

The number of strokes you are doing on the 8K is probably way too little. After the 4K I would do 60 strokes then test and if its not where you want it do another 60 and test again and just repeat that process until its shave ready. Also once you finish on the 4K you should be able to shave the hair off your arm pretty good so you might want to do some more strokes on that. You might also want to begin your work on the 4K by using a tad of pressure and then back off as you progress.

 

[leighton]

I've spent about 20 hours trying to get a shaving edge on several straights. After one sort of success I seem to have lost it altogether. I start on a 1k Norton stone till I can see an even bevel all the way across. Then I go to the 4k. I can kind of shave a few hairs off my arm after 50 to 70 strokes (x-pattern), then I go to the 8k and try to do no moe than 25 strokes. I'm trying to make these strokes with no more pressure than the weight of the razor. I then take the blade to the linen strop for 25 strokes and then the leather for 35 strokes. Then I try to shave. And the blade is too dull.

I've watched Tony Cornado's videos over and over. I'm feeling really clumsy and dumb. Wah!

What do you do to test after the 1k? If your only looking for an even bevel, that is not enough. It should be enough to shave your arm/leg hair with a high enough angle and a little pressure. A good analogy is shaving with a sharp pocketknife.

The test for your 4k is not stringent enough. It should be pretty damn close to shaving sharp at the 4k level. This is assuming you don't use pyramids. If you use pyramids just keep doing it until it shaves to your satisfaction.

After the 4k, you just polish it up a little on the 8k to get that smoothness and final super sharpness dialed in. Then finish on whatever you like because that razor is done!

 

[Utopian]

The number of strokes you are doing on the 8K is probably way too little. After the 4K I would do 60 strokes then test and if its not where you want it do another 60 and test again and just repeat that process until its shave ready. Also once you finish on the 4K you should be able to shave the hair off your arm pretty good so you might want to do some more strokes on that. You might also want to begin your work on the 4K by using a tad of pressure and then back off as you progress.

I've never felt the need to do more than 20 strokes on the 8k. My impression has always been that it gets its job done with that many or fewer strokes and if it hasn't accomplished it by then, then the problem is that not enough has been done with the lower grits.

 

[Slartibartfast]

My guess is your not spending enough time on the 1k.....

 

[Uncle Shakey]

Are you holding the strop tight andnot rolling the edge?

 

[Rick Sparks]

I'm holding the strop good and tight. Please explain what is meant by rolling the edge.

I won't have time to have another go at honing until Wednesday, so I think this is what my plan is, pending further input.

I'll go back to the 1k and hone lightly, testing after every 12 strokes until I can roughly shave a few arm hairs.

Then I'll go to the 4k and test every 24 strokes until I notice a difference in how easily the arm hairs get shaved.

Then I'll do a pyramid. Maybe several pyramids, until those arm hairs just whisk right off.

Then I'll do no more than 25 strokes on the 8k.

At that point I'm going to try shaving a bit of my face. Then I'll clean off the razor and strop it with 25 strokes on the linen and shave again to see if the edge is better or duller. If it's duller, I've found at least one culprit.

If it's better, I'll do 35 strokes on the leather and shave again.

By this time it will be so late on Wednesday that it will probably be Thursday, but I will, hopefully, have learned some more.

As soon as the razor I sent to Ambrose gets here I'll have a real benchmark, plus I'll get to shave with a truly sharp straight razor.

Any input greatly appreciated. The only other thing I've ever dedicated myself to this intensely is learning to play the violin. That's been a long, hard road too. Guess I have a thing about hard roads.

Anybody else remember President Kennedy's speech about why we were going to put a man on the moon?

"We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard".

Never really realized before how much of a chord that rings with me.

 

[leighton]

If the razor is shaving, the bevel is set. I recommend cutting out the 1k part.

While some of the other stuff sounds like overkill. Such as 25 extra laps on the 8k after a pyramid. But hey, whatever works for you.

 

[coloshaver]

I've been there. I posted on SRP back in May with exactly what you describe.

I am by no means an expert, but have managed to finally get several ebay specials sharp enough to shave with. It has taken me hundreds (and hundreds!!) of laps, but I think the key may be my technique has refined over that time. I found that (for me at least) I get more consistant laps if have the stone in front of me so I stroke left to right and back. It lets me see edge on both passes to be sure it is against the stone. I also thought I was using a light touch, but now use even less pressure. I use the marker test on the 1K to be sure the bevel is set. Then, I use the marker test again on the first strokes on the 4K. If the marks don't disappear evenly, I go back to the 1K. I have gotten better results with a progression rather than a pyramid. I have also gotten my best results with lots of laps (20 - 30) on the 8K. (As mentioned earlier, maybe that means I didn't stay on the 4K long enough, but this works for me.) Then I finish with 10 - 20 laps on a 8" Swaty barber hone, linen strop and finally leather strop.

YMMV, but be patient and keep working at it. It will come.

 

[leighton]

Rick,
I have it on good authority that you will be shaving with your razor very shortly.

 

[Rick Sparks]

I should probably wait until my razor gets back from Leighton, but I can't. I've got my stones soaking right now (I don't need to rephrase that here, right?) and I've just re-read this thread and watched a couple of Tony Coronado's videos of David Polan's honing workshop and I've just got to have another go!

 

[SavantStrike]

I should probably wait until my razor gets back from Leighton, but I can't. I've got my stones soaking right now (I don't need to rephrase that here, right?) and I've just re-read this thread and watched a couple of Tony Coronado's videos of David Polan's honing workshop and I've just got to have another go!

That's the spirit!

 

[mainaman]

has anyone tried the double polishing method for razors?
Its pretty much double progression 1k/3k/5-6k/8k/10k/ CrO strop, then go back to 5-6k /10k CrO strop.
This method works really well on knives, as it gives really refined edge +longer edge life. I have not tried it yet on razors, I bought my razor a week ago, it has been to the CrO strop, but it does not need to go to the stones yet.

 

[leighton]

has anyone tried the double polishing method for razors?
Its pretty much double progression 1k/3k/5-6k/8k/10k/ CrO strop, then go back to 5-6k /10k CrO strop.
This method works really well on knives, as it gives really refined edge +longer edge life. I have not tried it yet on razors, I bought my razor a week ago, it has been to the CrO strop, but it does not need to go to the stones yet.

Not to trash the method before trying it, but...ok, I suppose I am. Whats the point?

 

[heavydutysg135]

What do you do to test after the 1k? If your only looking for an even bevel, that is not enough. It should be enough to shave your arm/leg hair with a high enough angle and a little pressure. A good analogy is shaving with a sharp pocketknife.

I agree, as I said in the video my view is that the number 1 problem beginning honers have in not getting their razors sharp enough is not spending enough time on the low grit stones in the early stages to set a sharp edge. If the bevel is not properly set then you would be wasting your time on the higher grit stones. You can't see sharpness by looking at the side of the bevel (you can only see the hone contact), sharpness (when the two angles actually meet at the edge from heel to toe) needs to be tested by the methods that I described (if you choose to follow my sharpening philosophy). You might also want to check that your stones are refreshed so they are still cutting well if you are using waterstones like Nortons. I don't think that it takes a lot of time to polish out the scratch pattern on the higher grits (in this case the 4K and the 8K) after the bevel sharpness is properly established. The other problem that I can think of is that your technique is not quite there yet in terms of quality/consistently, you could be dulling the razor by lifting the spine, going off the corner of the hone, fliping the razor over the edge, using too much pressure, etc. It should go without saying that this advice is just my opinion based on my experiences. Just keep at it and you will get it.

David

 

[heavydutysg135]

I should add that if you are getting frusrerated and are not having fun anymore the it is probably a good time for a break. Come back when you are less tense and you will likely have better results and enjoy the process more.

 

[mparker762]

I should add that if you are getting frusrerated and are not having fun anymore the it is probably a good time for a break. Come back when you are less tense and you will likely have better results and enjoy the process more.

+1. You need to be calm and zenlike for best results when honing. Especially when you're still learning. You must be able to listen to what the hone and blade are telling you, and you can't do that when you're frustrated.

 

[Rick Sparks]

Well, I went all the way back to the 1k just to make sure I had an even bevel all the way across the blade. I worked 100 strokes and it would shave some arm hairs at that point. 50 on the 4k and it shaved arm hairs better. 25 on the 8k and it seemed pretty sharp. 40 strokes on the leather, 35 on the linen and I shaved. It did better than my last attempt, but still not good. I went over some places on my face and neck a second time. Managed to nick a bump just to the side of my lip. My fault, not the blade's. After breakfast I took another razor and did basically double the strokes on each stone I'd done before. It seems really sharp, but I won't really know until tomorrow morning. I can tell that it's going to take a long time to build the muscle memory to be able to do even, level, light strokes on the stones. But I'm doing the strokes very, very slowly. Just the way my violin teacher tells me to practice. Ambrose said it took him weeks and weeks to learn to hone properly, so I'm kind of settled in for a long haul. It would be so great to be able to shave with a straight that I honed and stropped. That would/will be something worth all this effort.

 

[leighton]

I don't know about your arm hairs, but if I can get a razor to chop down the really fine hairs on the back of my hand on a 1k, you should be chopping down thicker growth arm hairs off the 1k. Even if you have to use a 45 degree angle to do it. Like I said in my progression, knowing to stop using the 4k takes experience. Glen says when it shaves his arm hairs is when its done. I count the strokes and test using a lower angle than I do the 1k. Either case, if you do 5-10 more strokes on the 4k and its still getting better, your clearly not done. And I think that is the case here. Start at the 4k and don't stop until it stops chopping your arm hairs better. When you can't tell the difference, move to the 8k. Or, you could do the pyramids.

Either case, neither will work optimally without a correctly set bevel.

edit: I've attached a picture of what I test on for visual aid. A 1k chops that down quite well, actually.

 

[Seraphim]

I test my bevel setting by not shaving the arm hairs (or rather, back of hand) off at the base, but by seeing if the razor will cleave the arm hair halfway up the hair, a sort of HHT.

If the razor will not cut the hair in half easily at 1200, I continue on the 1200 until it does. Only after that will I refine the edge with higher grit hones.