How wrong have i been lathering for 5 months?!

[euro]

Hard soaps can be difficult to lather compared to creams. I would try the proraso shaving cream first.

 

[Tonikallinn]

Hard soaps can be difficult to lather compared to creams. I would try the proraso shaving cream first.

Yeah, i started out with a hard soap puck, not knowing about croaps and creams. And i found when i did two practice lathers today, TOBS and then Proraso croap, the cream was way quicker

 

[NorthernSoul]

The usual rookie lathering mistake is not using enough product. Followed by whipping the lather like they are trying to make froth for a cappuccino. The idea of looking for sheen is more or less to know you have enough soap and enough water. Without enough water, the lather will dry up before the person is done shaving, after which they will say the soap is worthless and terrible.

 

[Lockback]

I just tried doing another practice lather, but with Proraso.

It seems i've simply just been using too much water. Less water, more agitation - Lots of lather and slickness

And i do agree that letting the lather be for a minute or two, helps a lot. Hydrating the skin, softening the hairs

I fell victim to the same thing awhile back and cut back on the water and do a little more agitating and it's working for me.

 

[Ron R]

I think a person should make sure they have enough soap in the bowl to start with and just cut back a little if needed as you find that sweet spot for amount.(It is easier to add water then start out with to much and fight your lather the whole way to maybe get a good lather 4 or 5 minutes later!) I always have a decent bowl lather under 2 minutes with 98% of my soaps and creams. You can correct lather density a little when applying to face with just some painting strokes or light scrubbing with your brush.
@Tonikallinn you are mostly doing everything proper but its just needs to be tweaked slightly I'm thinking, depending on the brush used I always squeeze the brush of excess water and with the soap pressed in the bottom or smeared in the bowl if using a cream then I start swirling the brush in the bowl and you will get the paste started + the brush drags a little more so time to add some drops of water with your hand and swirl until the more paste is created and so on... until your close to desired density.
I always wet my face because you know it is going to evaporate some what(face temperature is 98'F) and I do not want a pasty lather either so then I apply lather to face & do a little face lathering usually with a light scrub and mostly painting action on the first pass.
2nd pass I will wet the face with a cold water rinse and paint only the second pass and for final pickups I will rinse my face with cold water and just add painted soap where my trouble spots are usually.

I should also mention I do use a mister occasionally with distilled water and it works wonders for lathering, it displaces the water into thousands of tiny droplets and it works excellent also for bowl lathering. (what I did was spray 1 pump into empty medicine bottle and slowly estimate how many droplets poured out and that is your gauge to use if you need 2 pumps or.......I also spray on brush 1 pump or 2). Works excellent and you can also use the mister to wet you face and that works well when it's hot out or just for a change up from routine. Dipping my brush tips in the water works also but is inconsistent and use your own discretion is my suggestion.
Hope this helps you make some excellent lather!

 

[dmshaver]

Good thread with excellent advice. I enjoy seeing how the OP has listened & applied new methods & reported on his results.

 

[Tonikallinn]

I may, or may not be at the starting line again...

Bowl lathering. I started to get varying results with TOBS. Sometimes it was good, sometimes it was a wet mess and no slickness. That's by slowly adding water as needed, as i heard creams need less water.

I just tried a version of the so called ''Marco Method''. Same amount of cream i use normally. But now i have the brush very wet. LIGHTLY shake of any water that will be dripping out, so my brush is completely filled with water. Go to my bowl, that has a small dab of the cream. The later is very..... thin and airy. But the slickness is fantastic. A bit more product/ a bit less water might make it less thin, and just as slick.

So here i have once again gone 360 with my methods, and i am completely lost as to why this is happening I've gone from:
-Slowly adding water, and agitate and work up the lather slowly.
To
-Using less water and agitating more
To now
-Drown the brush with water, and work it until it becomes a lather

If i used half as much water, as i do with the Marco Method. But using the method of slowly adding water, it slowly stops being slick, becomes a slickless lather that dries up on my face. - Shaking all water out the brush, and wetting just tips a tiny bit. Lightly start working the lather (no splaying) adding water slowly. Slowly start putting a tiny amount of pressure into mixing the lather, as time goes on. Lather looks fine, but no slickness, and dries of very fast

The variability is quite something..... Which it probably just me. But it's so confusing to me, as i'm very ''habit focused'' (sorry, i don't know the english word for it) and i tend to do things the same way, exactly to a tee. Still getting varying results

Maybe i'm thinking that the brush holds a lot more water than it does. And adding too much water when slowly adding water? I will try experimenting some more. I'd love to get some opinions, though. If you've been in my steps, or might understand what's going on here

 

[tiberius]

Looks just like what I experienced these few months ...

In my situation I was thinking "slowly adding water", "using less water" but later I found that I'm actually bringing too much water in at first with my brush.

Try soak your brush first, then squeeze it dry so it doesn't dip. Resist your instinct that the brush is too dry and start loading the soap. It should still pick up lots of soap. I perform loading for about 30~60 seconds but I think the time will vary with situation, you are likely to see foam/bubbles forming in the soap container while you loading and it's fine. While you are loading, you can try hold your soap container facing down while brush pointing up so brush brings down water/soap/lather.

Try lather in bowl or on your face after you loading, and it's likely already generating lather. It should be still too dry, so adding some drops water with your fingers or lightly dip with brush tip, about coin size / a spoon amount a time.

That's what worked for me, hope this helps.

 

[NorthernSoul]

I may, or may not be at the starting line again...

Bowl lathering. I started to get varying results with TOBS. Sometimes it was good, sometimes it was a wet mess and no slickness. That's by slowly adding water as needed, as i heard creams need less water.

I just tried a version of the so called ''Marco Method''. Same amount of cream i use normally. But now i have the brush very wet. LIGHTLY shake of any water that will be dripping out, so my brush is completely filled with water. Go to my bowl, that has a small dab of the cream. The later is very..... thin and airy. But the slickness is fantastic. A bit more product/ a bit less water might make it less thin, and just as slick.

So here i have once again gone 360 with my methods, and i am completely lost as to why this is happening I've gone from:
-Slowly adding water, and agitate and work up the lather slowly.
To
-Using less water and agitating more
To now
-Drown the brush with water, and work it until it becomes a lather

If i used half as much water, as i do with the Marco Method. But using the method of slowly adding water, it slowly stops being slick, becomes a slickless lather that dries up on my face. - Shaking all water out the brush, and wetting just tips a tiny bit. Lightly start working the lather (no splaying) adding water slowly. Slowly start putting a tiny amount of pressure into mixing the lather, as time goes on. Lather looks fine, but no slickness, and dries of very fast

The variability is quite something..... Which it probably just me. But it's so confusing to me, as i'm very ''habit focused'' (sorry, i don't know the english word for it) and i tend to do things the same way, exactly to a tee. Still getting varying results

Maybe i'm thinking that the brush holds a lot more water than it does. And adding too much water when slowly adding water? I will try experimenting some more. I'd love to get some opinions, though. If you've been in my steps, or might understand what's going on here

Study John's (@JCinPA's) post here. He provides detailed methods for several different use cases.

Foolproof Lather Method (TM) - any soap - any brush

I am a Lather Master! Not being braggadocious, just stating a fact. And you can be too! I'm here to teach you. No need for a Brotherhood of Lather Masters, every member of B&B should be a Lather Master. Unfortunately, with so many people who enjoy this activity so much, and the more OCD of us...

www.badgerandblade.com

Marco's method was originally for soft Italian soaps (aka croaps). The basic idea is using a very wet brush to load the soap with the jar held more or less upside-down over the brush. After the brush is loaded with soap, no additional water is used as the lather is made. You already have all the water you will need.

If you want to use Marco's method for creams, you have to be very careful, since creams already have a lot of water and you can easily pick up too much cream loading this way.

 

[Tonikallinn]

Study John's (@JCinPA's) post here. He provides detailed methods for several different use cases.

Foolproof Lather Method (TM) - any soap - any brush

I am a Lather Master! Not being braggadocious, just stating a fact. And you can be too! I'm here to teach you. No need for a Brotherhood of Lather Masters, every member of B&B should be a Lather Master. Unfortunately, with so many people who enjoy this activity so much, and the more OCD of us...

www.badgerandblade.com

Marco's method was originally for soft Italian soaps (aka croaps). The basic idea is using a very wet brush to load the soap with the jar held more or less upside-down over the brush. After the brush is loaded with soap, no additional water is used as the lather is made. You already have all the water you will need.

If you want to use Marco's method for creams, you have to be very careful, since creams already have a lot of water and you can easily pick up too much cream loading this way.

That's why im kind of confused why adding so much water to the cream, especially from the get go, made it so slick. Based on my experience so far, if i were to add that much water, by slowly adding it in while mixing the lather, it would be too much water and the slickness would disappear.

But as i say, i will experiment some more

 

[NorthernSoul]

That's why im kind of confused why adding so much water to the cream, especially from the get go, made it so slick. Based on my experience so far, if i were to add that much water, by slowly adding it in while mixing the lather, it would be too much water and the slickness would disappear.

But as i say, i will experiment some more

It's hard to know what's going on from a distance, but it may be your cream contains some non-soap ingredients like sodium lauryl sulfate, sodium cocoyl isethionate, triethylamine, etc. that would change the lathering characteristics compared with a straightforward soap.

Maybe that post from John will help you experiment a bit more.

 

[silverlifter]

Id like to find his actual post but its not easy with the search engine here.

My lathering technique with Italian soft soaps

Lately I've seen that some B&B members are having issues regarding how to create a good lather with Italian soft soaps. And I have personally received several PMs regarding this subject, with many asking me what kind of lathering technique I actually use. Here is a simple tutorial for new wet...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[PersistentlyBlunt]

There is a lot of good advice on here. I am only adding this as your story is a lot like a lathering crisis that I went through several months ago.

You appear to be bowl lathering exclusively. I started bowl lathering and have a lather bowl I love but have not used for sometime. After trying many methods to bowl lather and getting confused with too much or too little water, too much whipping, not enough whipping, whipping fast or whipping slow etc., I switched to face lathering and found I could get a better consistency and lather because I could feel how it was developing on my face. It also allowed me to see and feel, on my face, what a good lather looked like for me.

Too much water it all starts running off your face, too little and it feels/looks dry. Also, use more soap.

I am not advocating for one method or the other, what works for you is what you need to do. But if you haven't tried face lathering I would recommend experimenting with it a least once or twice.

For what it is worth my current method with any soap (I have tried Tabac, Cella Red, Proraso green, Haslinger, Arko!, Col Conc) is to swirl my damp (squeezed) brush clockwise and then anti-clockwise, I count to 20 one way and back from 20 the other (not specificly in seconds, just count). I pick up any lather that has formed on the soap and rub it on my face and then coat my face with soap off the brush. I then dip the tips of the brush in water and lather one side of the face and repeat on the other side, generally twice (two dips of tips) per side. Some soaps need three dips of water per side some not. Keep dipping and lathering until the lather feels right. My brush will usually hold enough lather for two passes at least. For me this produces a slick lather, not voluminous, but gives good coverage and is slick.

Also, out of interest, what type of brush do you use? I started initially with a cheap synthetic, I was PIF'd a badger brush and my lathers were instantly better and easier to obtain. I was able to get a similar lather eventually with the synthetic but it took longer and was way more work.

Good luck.

Edit: I now use the same method with synthetic, badger, boar and mixed boar/badger brushes, I am not suggesting one brush type is better than another, I think my first brush was just bad and I didn't know any different.

 

[Tonikallinn]

There is a lot of good advice on here. I am only adding this as your story is a lot like a lathering crisis that I went through several months ago.

You appear to be bowl lathering exclusively. I started bowl lathering and have a lather bowl I love but have not used for sometime. After trying many methods to bowl lather and getting confused with too much or too little water, too much whipping, not enough whipping, whipping fast or whipping slow etc., I switched to face lathering and found I could get a better consistency and lather because I could feel how it was developing on my face. It also allowed me to see and feel, on my face, what a good lather looked like for me.

Too much water it all starts running off your face, too little and it feels/looks dry. Also, use more soap.

I am not advocating for one method or the other, what works for you is what you need to do. But if you haven't tried face lathering I would recommend experimenting with it a least once or twice.

For what it is worth my current method with any soap (I have tried Tabac, Cella Red, Proraso green, Haslinger, Arko!, Col Conc) is to swirl my damp (squeezed) brush clockwise and then anti-clockwise, I count to 20 one way and back from 20 the other (not specificly in seconds, just count). I pick up any lather that has formed on the soap and rub it on my face and then coat my face with soap off the brush. I then dip the tips of the brush in water and lather one side of the face and repeat on the other side, generally twice (two dips of tips) per side. Some soaps need three dips of water per side some not. Keep dipping and lathering until the lather feels right. My brush will usually hold enough lather for two passes at least. For me this produces a slick lather, not voluminous, but gives good coverage and is slick.

Also, out of interest, what type of brush do you use? I started initially with a cheap synthetic, I was PIF'd a badger brush and my lathers were instantly better and easier to obtain. I was able to get a similar lather eventually with the synthetic but it took longer and was way more work.

Good luck.

Edit: I now use the same method with synthetic, badger, boar and mixed boar/badger brushes, I am not suggesting one brush type is better than another, I think my first brush was just bad and I didn't know any different.

I've seen somewhere that TOBS may be best face lathered. Im going to test that next. The reason i stopped face lathering, was that the brush i had at the time, A silvertip badger, was really making my face itch and irritated. Whether it was user error, or the animal hair i am not sure. But less time on the face, meant less uncomfortability at that time.

I now have a Synthetic Tuxedo Yaqi brush. Any splaying on the face so far, has been nothing but a pleasure, as it is incredibly soft.

 

[Hopalong]

I like mine like snot. Wet so it stays on your face, but barely.

 

[cvac]

I've seen somewhere that TOBS may be best face lathered. Im going to test that next. The reason i stopped face lathering, was that the brush i had at the time, A silvertip badger, was really making my face itch and irritated. Whether it was user error, or the animal hair i am not sure. But less time on the face, meant less uncomfortability at that time.

I now have a Synthetic Tuxedo Yaqi brush. Any splaying on the face so far, has been nothing but a pleasure, as it is incredibly soft.

Are we talking about TOBS hard milled soap or cream in a plastic jar? Just want to be clear on that.

The cream from TOBS should be very easy to lather. Hard soap from them takes a bit more work but should lather up fine with good technique.

Not being able to face lather when starting out is very common. Typical mistakes are applying too much pressure with the brush on the face, using a brush that is too scritchy, or just dealing with residual irritation from inadequate lather and improper blade angle.

Technique is very important and do not be afraid to do some practice lathers in a bowl or on your hand/arm until you get the hang of things.

If your bowl lather is too airy and foaming it means you did not use enough product or used too much water.

Good luck.

 

[Tonikallinn]

Are we talking about TOBS hard milled soap or cream in a plastic jar? Just want to be clear on that.

The cream from TOBS should be very easy to lather. Hard soap from them takes a bit more work but should lather up fine with good technique.

Not being able to face lather when starting out is very common. Typical mistakes are applying too much pressure with the brush on the face, using a brush that is too scritchy, or just dealing with residual irritation from inadequate lather and improper blade angle.

Technique is very important and do not be afraid to do some practice lathers in a bowl or on your hand/arm until you get the hang of things.

If your bowl lather is too airy and foaming it means you did not use enough product or used too much water.

Good luck.

The cream. Tried face lathering with it, took a bit out of the jar, and into the brush. Straight onto the face. Worked fine like that.

I feel like it's harder to tell when bowl lathering when you have enough water

 

[cvac]

The cream. Tried face lathering with it, took a bit out of the jar, and into the brush. Straight onto the face. Worked fine like that.

I feel like it's harder to tell when bowl lathering when you have enough water

The trick is to only add a little water at a time. Lather should be like a nice stable yogurt, not airy foam or slime.

You can either "dip and twist" if the cream is not very solid, or if more solid, you can swirl a bit until the brush is well loaded. TOBS cream consistency can vary, but it should always lather very easily when properly used.

If scooping cream out, I recommend an amount the size of 2 shelled almonds or 3 garbanzo beans to start with. You can use less product after you dial things in more. This will work for either bowl or face lathering BTW.

If you scoop, you can smear the cream on the brush or just rub it on your beard area and face lather that way.

Up to you. Many ways to get to the same point. Good luck.

 

[Tonikallinn]

The trick is to only add a little water at a time. Lather should be like a nice stable yogurt, not airy foam or slime.

You can either "dip and twist" if the cream is not very solid, or if more solid, you can swirl a bit until the brush is well loaded. TOBS cream consistency can vary, but it should always lather very easily when properly used.

If scooping cream out, I recommend an amount the size of 2 shelled almonds or 3 garbanzo beans to start with. You can use less product after you dial things in more. This will work for either bowl or face lathering BTW.

If you scoop, you can smear the cream on the brush or just rub it on your beard area and face lather that way.

Up to you. Many ways to get to the same point. Good luck.

Oh, that reminds me. After i put cream in the brush, i went back to the jar, and took the smallest amount more to rub onto my wet face. Kind of like using bloomwater as a preshave. That may have helped as well.

I also decided not to worry about the amount of cream i used. ''More than enough'' is how i'd describe it.

I do measure my Stirling though, or will do. Haven't shaved with it yet, but i've made a practice lather with a quarter tea spoon amount. Seems perfect for 2 passes + clean up

 

[StubbleTrouble]

Just how BADLY have i been lathering with the completely wrong technique? Or is this just TOBS Maybe? I am ashamed it took me this long to realize i might have been doing something wrong!

No worries, you'll figure it out soon enough, and continue to fine-tune it from there.

My personal routine is this:

Soak a good brush in hot tap water for at least 10 minutes. Don't bend the bristles (boar brushes) until they've soaked. Too brittle at first. After a good soak, let the excess water drip out of the brush without shaking it much at all and hit the puck right-side up and load away (I don't soak pucks in water beforehand, I feel it unnecessary with this method. I'm never shy about how much soap I load.... I face lather and bowl lather together, adding drops of water at a time as needed to the bowl. The brush holds almost all of my lather, and keeps it nice and hydrated. The bowl is really just a vessel to add water and load the brush.

I will warn you that my water is SUPER hard, meaning you can practically eat it. Not sure that really makes a huge difference, but it is a factor when compared to SUPER soft water. Anyway, I personally like my lather pretty thick. Not so thick that it clogs the DE razor though (meh, that's not a factor with str8s).

Rinse and dry the brush well and hang in the stand. Ready for the next shave....