If I am properly honing, how sharp should a razor get from 4000 grit? I am wondering that way I know when to move to the 8000 grit. 
How sharp should a straight razor get just from a 4000?
- Thread starter eclipse75
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you can shave off a 1K grit "American" stone . Higher up you go in grit the more comfortable the shave gets .
A Norton 4K is only 1,100 ANSI "American" grit .
Norton 8K is only 1,500 ANSI or "American" grit .
See my post about grit sizes and comparisons here in the honing section .
cityjim
A Norton 4K is only 1,100 ANSI "American" grit .
Norton 8K is only 1,500 ANSI or "American" grit .
See my post about grit sizes and comparisons here in the honing section .
cityjim
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If I am properly honing, how sharp should a razor get from 4000 grit? I am wondering that way I know when to move to the 8000 grit.
It should pass the HHT (for me, that means cleanly cleaving an arm hair mid-stalk) before moving to higher grits.
I agree with first post it is possible to shave of 1k but will be rough 4k you have to be able to shave arm hair once you can or even test shave your face then go 15 to 20 8k if not as good as you like do a pyramid 3/3 1/5 1/5 repeat untill happy
generally it should cut arm hair above skin level. i think it works for pretty much everybody's arm hair.
have you considered using pyramids between 4000 and 8000?
have you considered using pyramids between 4000 and 8000?
- Thread starter
- #6
gugi, nope. im pretty well broke now. so all i have to rely on is the norton 4k/8k
you don't need anything else. I'was referring to
http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwi..._using_the_Norton_Pyramids_to_dial_in_an_edge
http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwi..._using_the_Norton_Pyramids_to_dial_in_an_edge
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- #8
ahh gotcha gugi. definitely a useful link. thank you 
going to try it now.
going to try it now.
I read this wiki and was wondering about this: The tutorial states that this pyramid system is not intended for Japanese water stones.
Does anyone have a pyramid system for them?? I have been looking but I must not be looking in the right place.
It works for the naniwa superstones. Ask glen about the shapton hones.
these seem to be the most popular japanese hones at the moment.
for slower hones i have no idea.
these seem to be the most popular japanese hones at the moment.
for slower hones i have no idea.
I think they are saying no pyramid on natural stones in general if they require a slurry, since doing a pyramid would involve repeatedly building a slurry and and then washing it away. I know some of the Japanese stones are used with a slurry, though TBH I don't know a whole lot about them.
Or maybe they mean that doing a pyramid on Japanese water stones is bad because you could contaminate the hones? I know some Japanese water stones aren't supposed to be washed after they are used because the grit actually stays on the surface. Maybe moving a blade that has been honed on one stone to another could transplant some of this grit?
Otherwise it beats me why a pyramid is a no no with a Japanese water stone.
I'm going to need to write down the pyramid pattern. And I will do that and give it a try. But could somebody please explain the thinking behind this particular one-five, three-five, five-five, etc. pattern?
using fewer strokes produces better edge.
inexperienced honers have no idea when to switch hones.
That's undoubtedly true, but what's the advantage of switching back and forth? Doesn't the coarser grit undo the work of the finer?
Is it fewer strokes or less pressure?
I was under the impression that more strokes weren't necessarily a bad thing as long the pressure was kept to a minimum and the blade didn't end up being over honed.
Yes, it will to a certain extent, although if you keep doing extra strokes on the finer grit and less strokes on the coarser grit, I guess you go 2 steps forward, 1 step backward, until you finally reach your goal. It seems like an awful lot of trouble to me though.
Yes, it might be a way for a newbie honer to have a better chance at success (it automatically forces you to do a lot of passes, with a lot more on the finer stones), but I think just taking blades through each stage and seeing what you get may be a more rewarding way of doing things (although then you run the risk of having to start all over again when the edge doesn't come out like you expected).
That said I once did a pseudo pyramid between 12k and 8k on a blade that had been giving me trouble. I just wasn't happy with the level of polish I was getting at 8k and in my frustration I jumped to the 12k expecting it to do nothing. I ended up jumping back down to the 8k and up to the 12k again, but honestly I think it would have been better off staying at 8k until I was finished and then going to 12k.
I'm in no way qualified to be considered an authoritative opinion about this, though, so YMMV
.I have to admit that it does make more sense to me to try and learn what degree of sharpness one should achieve with a given grit, then move on to the next finer grit. I'm struggling, but I'm sure it's my technique, not my stones. One thing I'm wrestling with is the difference between the honing method Bill Ellis recommends (putting up to a pound of pressure on the blade) vs. what Mr. Coronado recommends ('x' strokes with no pressure). I'm leaning toward the 'x' stroke - no pressure method as I haven't had much luck with leaning on the blade.
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off the top of my head i can think of 5 honemeisters who i respect a lot and who have been helping dozens and hundreds of newbies learn to hone and every single one of them recommends newbies do pyramids on the 4000/8000 norton.
these days i mostly use progressive honing or some small variation of pyramids but i know first hand that the pyramids are very robust.
of course, everybody gets to pick whatever way they desire based on or despite the advice of the more experienced folks....
i also happen to think most people should not hone and only maintain their razors, and they do it anyways for the wrong reasons. but my opinions often go ATG with an overly enthusiastic majority.
these days i mostly use progressive honing or some small variation of pyramids but i know first hand that the pyramids are very robust.
of course, everybody gets to pick whatever way they desire based on or despite the advice of the more experienced folks....
i also happen to think most people should not hone and only maintain their razors, and they do it anyways for the wrong reasons. but my opinions often go ATG with an overly enthusiastic majority.
i would say both
Well, having gotten pretty much nowhere with using pressure and trying to go from 1000 to 4000 to 8000 Norton, I'm going to give this Pyramid thing a try. I find myself wanting to learn to hone with pretty much the same eagerness as I wanted to learn how to drive a car, way back when. So wish me luck. And stay tuned!
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