I just used Flitz and a rag and it always looked great in less than ten minutes.
Karve Diem
- Thread starter East coast shaver
- Start date
I started this way with my Karve. It seemed like there was going to be no end to my rags turning black!
I was surprised how dull and matte the finish under the gold wash was. I would have thought it would have had more of a polish on it than that before it was plated.
A timed soak in a BKF solution would likely change any Brass piece to that sort of finish. How long to let the acid work is the hard part.
I polished My Karve a few months back and it's still looking good.
Looks Great. You got me started on polishing when I had a chance to see the work you did on your Timeless. Now my Karve, Timeless and ATT SE1 are all polished. they came to me as matte or satin. Thanks for the previous PM's on your process.
Good to know that matte SS and titanium can be shined up with the same materials. I don't have any thing else that didn't come polished, but I'd like to to find a user grade NEW SC to work on.
Looking at the Karve plates, they range from AA to G in aggressiveness.
And something interesting comes up when you look into it:
karveshaving.com
The web page describes how they adjust aggressiveness by adjusting blade gap and also the exposure.
The exposure starts in the negative, meaning it's tucked back in behind an imaginary line drawn from the tip of the top plate, to the top of the safety bar, or in the case of an open comb, to the top of the tooth. And then the exposure increases, becoming a positive number as it protrudes out in front of that line, further and further.
Ok, I get that. Since the blade is always the same size, the bottom plate is made narrower each time, so the blade edge protrudes further out.
But only the bottom plate changes. The top plate stays the same. This is a bit strange, as it means that the shaving angle is changing. If the top plate was also made thinner, to match the new dimensions of the bottom plate, then the blade exposure would increase, but the shaving angle would remain the same.
Surely this would be better. But maybe this is such a small factor that it just doesn't matter much. Maybe that's the answer.
Or maybe there's something else going on, that larger minds could address.
And something interesting comes up when you look into it:
Plate selection
Types and levels of plates The Christopher Bradley use can be built up with two types of plates: open comb (OC) plates (left below) solid bar (SB) plates (right below) In addition to the two different plate types, the Christopher Bradley razor employs 8 different levels of OC plates and 8...
The web page describes how they adjust aggressiveness by adjusting blade gap and also the exposure.
The exposure starts in the negative, meaning it's tucked back in behind an imaginary line drawn from the tip of the top plate, to the top of the safety bar, or in the case of an open comb, to the top of the tooth. And then the exposure increases, becoming a positive number as it protrudes out in front of that line, further and further.
Ok, I get that. Since the blade is always the same size, the bottom plate is made narrower each time, so the blade edge protrudes further out.
But only the bottom plate changes. The top plate stays the same. This is a bit strange, as it means that the shaving angle is changing. If the top plate was also made thinner, to match the new dimensions of the bottom plate, then the blade exposure would increase, but the shaving angle would remain the same.
Surely this would be better. But maybe this is such a small factor that it just doesn't matter much. Maybe that's the answer.
Or maybe there's something else going on, that larger minds could address.
R
romsitsa
Hello, a narrower cap will alter blade angle, so if you change both plate and cap, "aggressiveness" will be multiplied.
Narrower base plate: blade is closer to your face
Narrower cap: blade is flatter
Adam
Narrower base plate: blade is closer to your face
Narrower cap: blade is flatter
Adam
This would make sense but Karve doesn't alter their top caps at all. The same top cap is used with all the different plates.
R
romsitsa
It doesn't make sense/is hard to get it right, I tried it.
With altering the base or cap, you have one variable. Altering both, gets you two variables, much harder to guesstimate how the razor will behave.
Adam
I can see how thinning the cap, to match the thinning base, might magnify the increase in aggression.
Similarly, you'd think that merely thinning the base, while leaving the cap alone, would do little to increase aggression. the cap would act as an overhang, not letting any more of the blade protrude, on matter what was changing underneath the blade.
So how does tweaking the base alone, work then? Because it does.
I wonder if it's because the cap is already set far back. So it's the edge of the base, underneath the blade, that limits the exposure. So as you thin the base back, you are making the base approach the already super thin cap, so exposure is increased.
Still though, it would be better to have base and cap move together in unison. With say a minimal exposure of .05mm, it would be nice to have the cap also forward to cover all but .05mm, just to have a tight solid grip on the blade.
Similarly, you'd think that merely thinning the base, while leaving the cap alone, would do little to increase aggression. the cap would act as an overhang, not letting any more of the blade protrude, on matter what was changing underneath the blade.
So how does tweaking the base alone, work then? Because it does.
I wonder if it's because the cap is already set far back. So it's the edge of the base, underneath the blade, that limits the exposure. So as you thin the base back, you are making the base approach the already super thin cap, so exposure is increased.
Still though, it would be better to have base and cap move together in unison. With say a minimal exposure of .05mm, it would be nice to have the cap also forward to cover all but .05mm, just to have a tight solid grip on the blade.
Here's a diagram.
Isn't it just that the shaving angle becomes steeper revealing the blade more as the gap increases while the width of both the cap and and the base plate remain constant?
^This
It is my understanding that you can change aggressiveness by blade exposure or blade gap (or both). I don't know how Karve does it, but I believe that by simply increasing gap (milling out metal from red line in pic to purple line (#1)) has an effect on 2 things - 1) obviously blade gap and 2) blade exposure. I think if you also extend the comb or straight bar out (item #2 in the pic) as you are increasing gap, you will be able to be able create consistent exposure across all of our base plates or at least fine tune them as you please. Obviously pic is not to scale.
My point is that I think you can do this without touching the top cap. I am not sure if Karve does this though.
My point is that I think you can do this without touching the top cap. I am not sure if Karve does this though.
I agree with catcha. Although with a caveat, as this is all new stuff to me.
I don't think that gap is necessarily connected to exposure.
The exposure is how far the edge protrudes, out beyond the safety bar.
The gap is how high the edge is, above the safety bar. How close the safety bar is, to the underside of the blade.
While a bigger gap is often associated with a bigger exposure, they don't have to be related.
For example, the Fatip open comb, which I just shaved with, is an aggressive razor. But the edge of the blade rests right on the teeth. Practically no gap at all. But you can certainly feel the edge.
There is an artisanal razor out there, can't recall the name, that has a huge gap, of a full 1.0 mill, and for all their razors. Everything else changes, but the gap is always one millimeter.
I can see how sometimes an increasing gap will happen to also increase the exposure. In the diagram above, one can see that as one grinds down the protruding "knee" of the safety bar, the bar will both move back, but also will drop down. the moving back will expose more edge. The moving down will increase the gap.
I think we've all come to believe that big gap means more exposure and more aggression. but I think it just comes from the way that razors are usually milled and ground in the factory. It's a coincidence.
Because you could grind the safety bar back without increasing the gap.
I found the Karve tables and they clearly are changing both gap and exposure at the same time. I'll bet it's due to how they mill the safety bar. They mill the bar back and down at the same time.
I doubt that it's intentional. I think it's just a consequence of how they mill the bar back to get more exposure. Becuase a bigger gap doesn't mean more aggression, as I used to believe. A big gap just means the blade will cut even if your shaving angle isn't perfectly accurate. It's easy to shave with. That fatip i just used, I have to be very accurate with my shaving angle. Having the blade rest against the safety bar means it's tricky to shave with.
Here's the Karve table:
The geometry of each plate is as follows:
I don't think that gap is necessarily connected to exposure.
The exposure is how far the edge protrudes, out beyond the safety bar.
The gap is how high the edge is, above the safety bar. How close the safety bar is, to the underside of the blade.
While a bigger gap is often associated with a bigger exposure, they don't have to be related.
For example, the Fatip open comb, which I just shaved with, is an aggressive razor. But the edge of the blade rests right on the teeth. Practically no gap at all. But you can certainly feel the edge.
There is an artisanal razor out there, can't recall the name, that has a huge gap, of a full 1.0 mill, and for all their razors. Everything else changes, but the gap is always one millimeter.
I can see how sometimes an increasing gap will happen to also increase the exposure. In the diagram above, one can see that as one grinds down the protruding "knee" of the safety bar, the bar will both move back, but also will drop down. the moving back will expose more edge. The moving down will increase the gap.
I think we've all come to believe that big gap means more exposure and more aggression. but I think it just comes from the way that razors are usually milled and ground in the factory. It's a coincidence.
Because you could grind the safety bar back without increasing the gap.
I found the Karve tables and they clearly are changing both gap and exposure at the same time. I'll bet it's due to how they mill the safety bar. They mill the bar back and down at the same time.
I doubt that it's intentional. I think it's just a consequence of how they mill the bar back to get more exposure. Becuase a bigger gap doesn't mean more aggression, as I used to believe. A big gap just means the blade will cut even if your shaving angle isn't perfectly accurate. It's easy to shave with. That fatip i just used, I have to be very accurate with my shaving angle. Having the blade rest against the safety bar means it's tricky to shave with.
Here's the Karve table:
The geometry of each plate is as follows:
- AA - gap = 0.47mm / exposure = negative 0.07mm
- A - gap = 0.60mm / exposure = negative 0.02mm
- B - gap = 0.73mm / exposure = zero
- C - gap = 0.85mm / exposure = positive 0.09mm
- D - gap = 0.98mm / exposure = positive 0.13mm
- E - gap = 1.10mm / exposure = positive 0.17mm
- F - gap = 1.23mm / exposure = positive 0.22mm
- G - gap = 1.36mm / exposure = positive 0.25mm (not available in OC)
I hear what you are saying on all of your points. However, when you said "bigger gap doesn't mean more aggression," I will through my two cents in on this. Let's assume the difference between razors or two base plates is solely the gap (blade angle and blade exposure stay exactly the same). I ***think*** the amount of skin (or I call it "plump" or "bulge") that can get in the gap while shaving can result in more aggression or at least efficiency.
catcha, I agree with you. To be perfectly accurate about it, the gap "can" mean more aggression.
Yes, if you increase pressure, the soft skin is squooshed up, to use the engineering term, so it bulges up like a pillow. So it offers more of its bulgy self to the edge.
And this means that it's the same result as if the blade was more exposed, more protruding, more pressing deeply into the soft skin. digging in to capture those hairs deep down at their base. Giving bbs at the price of a couple of weepers.
because the soft skin rises up to meet the edge, instead of the edge protruding out to dig deep into the soft skin. same result.
So on the contrary, an increased gap might mean no more aggression at all. IF you don't apply good pressure, the bulging up effect won't happen.
But with increasing blade exposure, then yes, that will increase aggression no matter what you do. An edge that is aggressively exposed .25mll will dig .25 mll into the skin before the safety bar stops it from going deeper.
I see large gaps as a thing for advanced shavers. It lets then use varying pressure to get more aggression in trouble spots. It lets them play with shaving angles, from as low as 15 to as high as 30 degrees.
by the way, kudos for fixing up that diagram so quickly.
Oh, one more thing. on that karve table I posted above, it starts with the AA and A plates as with a negative dimension exposure. wow, negative. So that means they assume that the user will use some presssure and have the skin bulge up to some degree. Otherwise the skin would never meet the edge. Interesting.
Yes, if you increase pressure, the soft skin is squooshed up, to use the engineering term, so it bulges up like a pillow. So it offers more of its bulgy self to the edge.
And this means that it's the same result as if the blade was more exposed, more protruding, more pressing deeply into the soft skin. digging in to capture those hairs deep down at their base. Giving bbs at the price of a couple of weepers.
because the soft skin rises up to meet the edge, instead of the edge protruding out to dig deep into the soft skin. same result.
So on the contrary, an increased gap might mean no more aggression at all. IF you don't apply good pressure, the bulging up effect won't happen.
But with increasing blade exposure, then yes, that will increase aggression no matter what you do. An edge that is aggressively exposed .25mll will dig .25 mll into the skin before the safety bar stops it from going deeper.
I see large gaps as a thing for advanced shavers. It lets then use varying pressure to get more aggression in trouble spots. It lets them play with shaving angles, from as low as 15 to as high as 30 degrees.
by the way, kudos for fixing up that diagram so quickly.
Oh, one more thing. on that karve table I posted above, it starts with the AA and A plates as with a negative dimension exposure. wow, negative. So that means they assume that the user will use some presssure and have the skin bulge up to some degree. Otherwise the skin would never meet the edge. Interesting.
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