Didn’t the Adrian Cronauer lead character say at one point that it was so hot in Vietnam that he saw man in orange robes burst into flames?
They would probably not dare to make that kind of comment if they were shooting the movie today.
B.
Hot or Cold Water?
- Thread starter Wgg2017
- Start date
Didn’t the Adrian Cronauer lead character say at one point that it was so hot in Vietnam that he saw man in orange robes burst into flames?
They would probably not dare to make that kind of comment if they were shooting the movie today.
B.
I'm not a dermatologist and I don't even play one on TV, but I have read in many places that pores don't actually close.
Do Pores Open and Close?
“It is a myth that your pores open and close,” says Dr. Zeichner. “They are not like windows, but rather like pipes that can become clogged with oil causing them to dilate.”
Does Hot or Warm Water Open Your Pores?
Using warm water to “open” your pores is technically impossible. Your pores aren’t muscles, so they can’t voluntarily open and contract regardless of water temperature. “There is nothing that can physically make the pores smaller or bigger,” says Dr. Palep. That said, there is some logic behind washing your face with warm water to help clean out your pores.
While warm water will not actually open up your pores, it can help clean out the gunk, grime and sebum that has accumulated inside. “The more oil and gunk you get into your oil gland, and hence the hair follicle, the bigger your pores are going to look because the oil is sitting in your pores and stretching it out,” says Dr. Palep.
“Water in general can help remove excess oil from the skin, to minimize [your pores’] appearance by removing the blockages within them,” explains Dr. Zeichner.
While washing your face with either warm or cold water is helpful for keeping your pores clear, warmer water has particular advantages. “Hot water can change the structure of the skin, make it more pliable and loosen up the material in it so it’s more easily flushed out, which can make the pore appear smaller,” says Dr. Palep. Just be sure, however, not to turn the temperature up too hot. As Dr. Palep explains, water that’s too hot can break down proteins in the skin, making it more susceptible to concerns like eczema, breakouts and irritation.
Dr. do not tend to agreeing on much, but that is OK. Sometimes their opinions are depent on experience, and where they practice. My old Dermotologist was full of information, because she had done her profession over 50 years plus. Can't expect a new doctor fresh out of residency to have her knowledge & experience of old hand.
Posting this as I was really interested to read the study that was linked earlier by @VerbaVolant but the link in the original thread was dead. A quick Google found a working version:
library.scconline.org
I read it last night and have further thoughts on what seem to be the actual takeaways from that study...
A typical beard hair should be fully saturated after 3 minutes of continual exposure to water at ambient room temperatures.
How is this continual exposure to be achieved? In the experiment they held a single hair under a stream of running water. We have the choice to either immerse our faces in the sink for 3 minutes (get your snorkels out, lads), or try and keep the face wet by continually splashing it with water. One is impractical, the other probably not optimal in it's effectiveness. Standing under a shower for several minutes seems to me a happy medium in terms of approximating the experimental conditions shown here. It’s worth noting that they also cite another study which concluded full saturation would take 2.5 to 3 minutes at a temperature of 48 degrees – I suspect that a lot depends on how you are going about the process of saturation, thus the difference in results.
Elevated temperatures increase the rate of saturation.
If we can’t ensure that our entire face is submerged the whole time, it makes sense that we might need to find some means of expediting the saturation process. It’s either that, or we accept that a room temperature shower is probably going to need to be much longer than 3 minutes to fully saturate our beards, unless perhaps we literally just stand there with the jet aimed at our face the entire time. Thus, a hot shower for 3-5 minutes (roughly how long I reckon it takes for my beard to fully soften, but YMMV) to achieve beard saturation probably makes more practical sense than holding your breath with your face in the sink or a room temperature shower for exponentially longer.
Elevated temperatures at the time of cutting reduce the force needed to cut the hair.
I have often been perplexed by people who claim that using cold water for their shave makes it easier to cut hair. That has always seemed completely contrary to my schoolboy’s understanding of physics. Apparently, the data agrees with me – according to these results, keeping the beard warm for shaving (e.g. with warm lather) should make the hair easier to cut. I don't use a scuttle, but I may experiment by using warmer water than usual for my actual lathering (I usually use blood temperature water).
Soaps and pre-shave treatments are no more effective at softening hair than water alone.
So, whilst they can serve a purpose to hold moisture against the skin (as we often see with traditional barbers or “Kyle’s Prep”, that both utilize false lathers for beard softening) assuming we are also doing a thorough water prep, we need to be deriving some other benefit from our pre-shave software to make it worthwhile. I would suggest that for a lot of folks, that probably comes in the form of increased cushion and slickness during the actual shave, but if your goal is to use pre-shaves instead of doing a water-based prep…well, if practicalities allow you are probably better off sticking with the water. Equally, I had always believed (and said earlier in this thread) that washing the beard helped with saturation, due to the mildly alkaline nature of the soap helping to compromise the hair cuticle and allow water ingress. According to this study, that isn’t the case – a mild alkaline medium did not appear to shorten the hydration time – you may just as well use water. I am probably not going to stop washing my face in the shower anyway, but at least I know it isn't strictly necessary as a beard prep. Overall though, I remain an advocate of the shower prep as the best all round option, assuming conditions allow it.
Finally, it was interesting to read that they cite another study which found that increased melatonin levels in hair made it harder to cut. Their own study didn’t corroborate that, and I may be mistaken, but I could swear blind that my beard has gotten tougher in the past 5 years or so as I have gone grey. Is that just me?
It’s all interesting stuff for a shave nerd to ponder!
Volume 27 No 12
I read it last night and have further thoughts on what seem to be the actual takeaways from that study...
A typical beard hair should be fully saturated after 3 minutes of continual exposure to water at ambient room temperatures.
How is this continual exposure to be achieved? In the experiment they held a single hair under a stream of running water. We have the choice to either immerse our faces in the sink for 3 minutes (get your snorkels out, lads), or try and keep the face wet by continually splashing it with water. One is impractical, the other probably not optimal in it's effectiveness. Standing under a shower for several minutes seems to me a happy medium in terms of approximating the experimental conditions shown here. It’s worth noting that they also cite another study which concluded full saturation would take 2.5 to 3 minutes at a temperature of 48 degrees – I suspect that a lot depends on how you are going about the process of saturation, thus the difference in results.
Elevated temperatures increase the rate of saturation.
If we can’t ensure that our entire face is submerged the whole time, it makes sense that we might need to find some means of expediting the saturation process. It’s either that, or we accept that a room temperature shower is probably going to need to be much longer than 3 minutes to fully saturate our beards, unless perhaps we literally just stand there with the jet aimed at our face the entire time. Thus, a hot shower for 3-5 minutes (roughly how long I reckon it takes for my beard to fully soften, but YMMV) to achieve beard saturation probably makes more practical sense than holding your breath with your face in the sink or a room temperature shower for exponentially longer.
Elevated temperatures at the time of cutting reduce the force needed to cut the hair.
I have often been perplexed by people who claim that using cold water for their shave makes it easier to cut hair. That has always seemed completely contrary to my schoolboy’s understanding of physics. Apparently, the data agrees with me – according to these results, keeping the beard warm for shaving (e.g. with warm lather) should make the hair easier to cut. I don't use a scuttle, but I may experiment by using warmer water than usual for my actual lathering (I usually use blood temperature water).
Soaps and pre-shave treatments are no more effective at softening hair than water alone.
So, whilst they can serve a purpose to hold moisture against the skin (as we often see with traditional barbers or “Kyle’s Prep”, that both utilize false lathers for beard softening) assuming we are also doing a thorough water prep, we need to be deriving some other benefit from our pre-shave software to make it worthwhile. I would suggest that for a lot of folks, that probably comes in the form of increased cushion and slickness during the actual shave, but if your goal is to use pre-shaves instead of doing a water-based prep…well, if practicalities allow you are probably better off sticking with the water. Equally, I had always believed (and said earlier in this thread) that washing the beard helped with saturation, due to the mildly alkaline nature of the soap helping to compromise the hair cuticle and allow water ingress. According to this study, that isn’t the case – a mild alkaline medium did not appear to shorten the hydration time – you may just as well use water. I am probably not going to stop washing my face in the shower anyway, but at least I know it isn't strictly necessary as a beard prep. Overall though, I remain an advocate of the shower prep as the best all round option, assuming conditions allow it.
Finally, it was interesting to read that they cite another study which found that increased melatonin levels in hair made it harder to cut. Their own study didn’t corroborate that, and I may be mistaken, but I could swear blind that my beard has gotten tougher in the past 5 years or so as I have gone grey. Is that just me?
It’s all interesting stuff for a shave nerd to ponder!
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I think it's time to ask Chat GPT to settle this conundrum.
You can see for yourself when you wash your hair that soap or shampoo makes the hair get saturated quicker than it does with just water alone. It's not just the alkaline medium, but soap/shampoo removes a layer of oil that slows down water absorption. Yes, the hair will eventually get saturated with just plain water, but it takes longer.
That sounds logical, since any natural oils must be hydrophobic...although they claim to have established otherwise as part of their preliminary testing:
"Following the determination of the initial hydration curve at 23øC (Fig. 6, before), the fiber was washed in 0.5 per cent aqueous sodium lauryl sulfate solution, rinsed with distilled water, and dried for 48 h in a desiccator over P205 a second hydration curve was then determined (Fig. 6, after). The absence of any significant difference suggests that the rate of hydration is not altered by the removal of surface lipids."
I would say, trust your experience. For my own part, I wash the beard area anyway and don't intend to change that habit based on this study.
- Thread starter
- #48
Was holding off on voting until I tried a cold water shave. After my first cold water shave last night I'm inclined to go with cold instead of hot.
Hot water shaves are smoother, but don't communicate as well as cold water does. Meaning, hot water feels better during the shave but cold water lets me know immediately when I'm off angle or just not doing my best.
Very happy to have gained this knowledge. Happy shaves everyone!
Hot water shaves are smoother, but don't communicate as well as cold water does. Meaning, hot water feels better during the shave but cold water lets me know immediately when I'm off angle or just not doing my best.
Very happy to have gained this knowledge. Happy shaves everyone!
For me, with my hyper oily skin, a necessary preparatory step involves washing and scrubbing with warm to hot water and soap to strip oil off my beard.
I confess to not having experimented much with shaving temperature, and I lean toward quite warm.
I'm surprised that in 48 posts, no one has mentioned the hot towel technique employed by barbers.
Is this a case of tradition being wrong, practical experience being best, or perhaps one of selling a relaxing experience at the expense of effectiveness?
... Thom
I confess to not having experimented much with shaving temperature, and I lean toward quite warm.
I'm surprised that in 48 posts, no one has mentioned the hot towel technique employed by barbers.
Is this a case of tradition being wrong, practical experience being best, or perhaps one of selling a relaxing experience at the expense of effectiveness?
... Thom
I said hot, but...
This is B&B, where if you say use hot water, people put an electric kettle in their bathroom and if you say cold, they fill their sink with ice cubes.
Hot to me is simply very warm. Cold to me is below tepid, which is just slightly cool feeling.
Humans generally perceive temperatures below 63 as cold and temperatures above 73 as hot.
Individuals are different of course, but a swing of 5 degrees (58 to 78) encompasses nearly everyone.
It isn't necessary to use scalding or ice water to fulfill the hot or cold criteria.
This is B&B, where if you say use hot water, people put an electric kettle in their bathroom and if you say cold, they fill their sink with ice cubes.
Hot to me is simply very warm. Cold to me is below tepid, which is just slightly cool feeling.
Humans generally perceive temperatures below 63 as cold and temperatures above 73 as hot.
Individuals are different of course, but a swing of 5 degrees (58 to 78) encompasses nearly everyone.
It isn't necessary to use scalding or ice water to fulfill the hot or cold criteria.
Honestly, I am surprised that the largest group voted for ”cold” (but I was not one of them 
).
Out of curiosity, anybody straight shaving with cold or tepid water?
B.
).Out of curiosity, anybody straight shaving with cold or tepid water?
B.
I kind of alluded to it in my long post that most people probably didn't bother reading! It seems like the traditional barber prep of doing a false lather then wrapping hot towels over it is a practical way of first introducing some moisture (contained in the lather) and then introducing some heat (with the towels) in order to soften the beard as best they can. When the person to be shaved is sat in your barber chair, possibly in their best duds, there's only so much you can practically do in terms of prep - this seems like really the best option available in the circumstances.
I know it's not a traditional straight but I use cold water with AC straight.Honestly, I am surprised that the largest group voted for ”cold” (but I was not one of them
Out of curiosity, anybody straight shaving with cold or tepid water?
B.
I shave with cold water only when I have to (thanks, US Army!). Otherwise, I prefer warm-to-hot (not scalding) water for shaving and rinse with cool water when done.
Tried shaving with cold water a couple of times, didn't care for it. I like my lather warm. 
- Thread starter
- #57
24 hours after first cold water shave and my whiskers seem ever so slightly shorter than after the same amount of time with a hot water shave. No irritation either. I'm really liking the cold water results so far.
I have been shaving with safety and straight razors for many years and I had thought that my time for epiphanies in shaving had passed.
And then I found a Mühle shaving towel that I had stashed away somewhere, tried it for a shave and noticed a marked difference.
I had tried hot, wet towels years ago but stopped using them before long as they didn’t seem to make much difference then.
Now they do…
Maybe it has to do with the fact that I am retired now and can afford the extra time.
To go back to the original question; I see myself doing a cold, wet towel pre-shave even less than I see myself doing a cold shave.
B.
Well, I tried cold water this morning.
Razor: '58 Tech
Blade: Feather
Brush: My favorite, old, nearly worn out boar
Soap: Captains Choice Nor'Easter bowl lather
Pre: cold water face wash
Post: cold water rinse
The soap didn't seem to lather as quickly as it normally does but it still only took a few minutes. The 2 pass shave was fine, there was no trace of pull or roughness. I re-lathered between passes and did a couple of minor touch ups. The result was a decent shave, certainly not the best I've ever had but okay for a workday. I was not a fan of the harsh cold water. I decided to give the cold water a couple more days before I call it quits on the cold. I may switch things up a little in the morning or not, just depends on my mood !
Razor: '58 Tech
Blade: Feather
Brush: My favorite, old, nearly worn out boar
Soap: Captains Choice Nor'Easter bowl lather
Pre: cold water face wash
Post: cold water rinse
The soap didn't seem to lather as quickly as it normally does but it still only took a few minutes. The 2 pass shave was fine, there was no trace of pull or roughness. I re-lathered between passes and did a couple of minor touch ups. The result was a decent shave, certainly not the best I've ever had but okay for a workday. I was not a fan of the harsh cold water. I decided to give the cold water a couple more days before I call it quits on the cold. I may switch things up a little in the morning or not, just depends on my mood !
