Honing Certification?

[English]

I think that honing razors on mass is probably very lucrative if you have enough customers. I wouldn't find such work very satisfying but I can see how you can make a lot of money at it.

You also don't want to fall into the misconception that a hobbyist honing a razor for fun and satisfaction should compare his work with a professional who makes a living from supplying a razor sharpening service.

To be fair the profesional has to have a process. You have to open the incoming parcels, keep the records, hone the razors, quality control the final edge, oil, pack, address and ship back to the customer having checked you have been paid in the process.

Today you can purchase synthetic hone sets that will hone a new bevel and take to shaving sharp 99% of razors in less than ten minutes. Some razors need to be taped and some require slower treatment such as smiling edges.

E bay junk can have the niks removed on electric spinning disc honing machines in seconds. To a professional honer, time and cost and the quality of the finished product are the only important factors and the current hones and equipment out there have made the time factor a non problem.

With good administration and a good process, 25 razors a day should be a walk in the park. 50 would be a busy day at the office.

The only time I get upset with the professional guys is when they recommend some of the equipment they use as the best. When in fact its no were near the best, it just the most cost effective. Unfortuneately they can fall into the trap of confusing the repetition of sharpening thousands of razors as being experience. Whilst those who try many variations of hones and methods to discover the best are actually the really experienced people out there and they are usually the quiet majority who understand all of this stuff but just don't want to ruffle feathers or express their opinions.

As you know, I like to express my opinion.

 

[SavantStrike]

Yes. But at least one honemeister has repeatedly made the claim over many years that he does 200-250 razors/week, or that he hones 25-30 razors in a single session, or other roughly equivalent statistics. At this point I'm inclined to take him at his word on this.

Using honing films makes this much faster since you always have fresh abrasive and a perfectly lapped surface, as does using multiple bevels so you don't have to spend much time in the polishing stages. And it obviously helps if you're mostly honing factory edges instead of ebay junkers.

These numbers sound fairly reasonable to me, although it does lead me to wonder.

Where's the fun?

 

[mparker762]

These numbers sound fairly reasonable to me, although it does lead me to wonder.

Where's the fun?

I doubt it's much fun. But that's why they charge for it. IMO $20 is too low for the level of aggravation involved. But I do think that it's important that we realize that the honemeisters -- especially the larger ones -- have a very different stake in this hobby than we hoi polloi, so we should interpret their comments and consider their opinions very cautiously.

 

[FloppyShoes]

I doubt it's much fun. But that's why they charge for it. IMO $20 is too low for the level of aggravation involved. But I do think that it's important that we realize that the honemeisters -- especially the larger ones -- have a very different stake in this hobby than we hoi polloi, so we should interpret their comments and consider their opinions very cautiously.

Well said.

I've never done more than 55 in a week, mostly because I like this hobby too much to burn myself out on it. Some "honemeisters" have day jobs and offer their services for reasons other than profit.

 

[jzono1]

I saw this thread earlier today and it got me thinking about a way to certify users, for fun&profit:
-Take some cheap current-production razor. (Double Arrows might be suitable?) - settle on it as a "standard" B&B honing certification razor.
-Let the testee pay for it & hone it from the factory edge, then ship it off to a voulenteer.
-Said voulenteer checks if it is indeed shave-ready. If it is, sell it through B&B in some form, covering the testee's expenses and a modest contribution to B&B
-List passed testees on a protected wiki page or a forum sticky.

It would help with providing shave-ready straights for new straight users, contribute to the forum, and give confidence to the testees.

Is this far out, or a decent idea?

 

[mparker762]

Is this far out, or a decent idea?

The problem is that factory razors are a much easier test than vintage razors, and anyone aspiring to be a honemeister should be able to hone anything, no matter the condition of the blade. Smiling edges, rotted steel, curved edges, curved spines, carbide-rich carbon steel, stainless steel, flat-sided wedges - all these are common situations that a honemeister should be able to handle well.

Possibly a flight of 8-10 razors that would be honed and tested, but even here many of the problems would be fixed by the first honemeister so these razors wouldn't be as good of a test for the next guy.

The current situation isn't ideal, but it's a lot better than it used to be - at one time SRP granted you the title of "honemeister" after 100 posts, which led to the amusing situation of "honemeisters" that had never honed a single razor, not even on a paddle.

 

[Bacchus]

I got my honemeistering diploma off the back of a matchbook cover.

I thought that you payed $3 for it off the back of a comic book?

 

[leighton]

First of all, who exactly is claiming to be a honemeister that we as a community don't agree with?

I mean honestly, if someone put the sign up, we as a community would tear it down if they weren't up to the task. Its really quite self regulating if you want my honest opinion.

 

[SavantStrike]

I saw this thread earlier today and it got me thinking about a way to certify users, for fun&profit:
-Take some cheap current-production razor. (Double Arrows might be suitable?) - settle on it as a "standard" B&B honing certification razor.
-Let the testee pay for it & hone it from the factory edge, then ship it off to a voulenteer.
-Said voulenteer checks if it is indeed shave-ready. If it is, sell it through B&B in some form, covering the testee's expenses and a modest contribution to B&B
-List passed testees on a protected wiki page or a forum sticky.

It would help with providing shave-ready straights for new straight users, contribute to the forum, and give confidence to the testees.

Is this far out, or a decent idea?

Isn't this kind of vouching similar to what someone posted used to hapen earlier? I.E. members would inspect a razor and say yes it was shave ready and vouch for the person who honed it (until someone started offering competing services).

This isn't a good test because an ebay special is a different breed of painful. It's also not a good test because I wouldn't want to try tackling a DA after reading about some of the drama Seraphim goes through. The man has to straighten some of them with a vice before he even starts honing .

The problem is that factory razors are a much easier test than vintage razors, and anyone aspiring to be a honemeister should be able to hone anything, no matter the condition of the blade. Smiling edges, rotted steel, curved edges, curved spines, carbide-rich carbon steel, stainless steel, flat-sided wedges - all these are common situations that a honemeister should be able to handle well.

Possibly a flight of 8-10 razors that would be honed and tested, but even here many of the problems would be fixed by the first honemeister so these razors wouldn't be as good of a test for the next guy.

The current situation isn't ideal, but it's a lot better than it used to be - at one time SRP granted you the title of "honemeister" after 100 posts, which led to the amusing situation of "honemeisters" that had never honed a single razor, not even on a paddle.

Why is the title even necessary? If someone can put an edge on the razors you described they should be confident enough their services will stand on their own.

First of all, who exactly is claiming to be a honemeister that we as a community don't agree with?

I mean honestly, if someone put the sign up, we as a community would tear it down if they weren't up to the task. Its really quite self regulating if you want my honest opinion.

I'm not sure what the original topic was. I think the OP was just curious if there was in fact any sort of formal regulation regarding the topic like there is becoming a barber or a certified contractor. Then I think there were a few people who were interested in becoming certified, and we all were debating exactly what it means to be a honemeister.

 

[RayG]

IMO $20 is too low for the level of aggravation involved.

I think so, too.

IMO, honemeisters provide a great service, if only by allowing folks to try and get into the hobby. At 500 razors a month, that equates to A LOT of people who cannot (or will not) hone their own razors, who are now shaving. Without them, I would imagine someone buying a razor, picking up a DMT 8K and CrO, trying to hone for himself and never knowing what a sharp edge really is, finally giving up, wondering what the big fuss is about since his DE does a much better job.

 

[gugi]

Honing good razors is easy and straightforward, honing many problematic razors quickly is something else.

I used to have a razor that was pronounced 'unable to take an edge' by a famous wannabe honemeister with a lot of hones and a large ego who has honed hundreds of razors. That was one of the sharpest razors I've ever shaved with (after stopping by one of the other guys who has honed razors for few decades).

So, guy number one is never touching a razor of mine, and guy number two can have any of my razors any time he wants. I don't care who is called what and if somebody hones well one of my razors they have saved me a lot more than $20-$30.

 

[gugi]

I think so, too.

IMO, honemeisters provide a great service, if only by allowing folks to try and get into the hobby. At 500 razors a month, that equates to A LOT of people who cannot (or will not) hone their own razors, who are now shaving. Without them, I would imagine someone buying a razor, picking up a DMT 8K and CrO, trying to hone for himself and never knowing what a sharp edge really is, finally giving up, wondering what the big fuss is about since his DE does a much better job.

I always think that if it honing were really easy and so highly profitable Dovo an Thiers-Issard would have their razors honed better out of the factory. Some of their guys do pretty good honing job, but the majority don't. I don't know if it's a cost issue as they've raised the prices significantly in the last few years, in many cases by times the $20.

 

[GsSixgun]

First off nobody can give themselves the title it just doesn't work that way and who cares what the title is anyway, either you can hone, and people send you their razors or ya can't and they don't...

Tons of people on all these forums can hone razor's, the problem is they don't hone other people's razors, see that does take as you guys said "Cajones" you have to take the risk, you have to be confident enough in your talent, that no matter what comes in the mail, you know you can get it shaving....

If and when you think yer that good, then take on some razors, if the people like what you did, soon they will start calling you names, just hope it is Honemiester and not something else...

By the way there is a huge difference in honing, and restoration, please don't lump the two together....

 

[English]

THANKS GLEN.

That really helps put it all into a perspective and clarity that really helps.

 

[GsSixgun]

THANKS GLEN.

That really helps put it all into a perspective and clarity that really helps.

You sir are most welcome !!!!

I try

 

[mparker762]

I always think that if it honing were really easy and so highly profitable Dovo an Thiers-Issard would have their razors honed better out of the factory. Some of their guys do pretty good honing job, but the majority don't. I don't know if it's a cost issue as they've raised the prices significantly in the last few years, in many cases by times the $20.

The problem is that they couldn't recoup the cost - the marginal value for them for delivering a honemeister-quality edge is approximately zero. For one the edges would have to retain that sharpness while being shipped across the ocean and while sitting in Classic's (or whoever's) warehouse then to the customer's door, then survive its first stropping. And even if they could engineer such a feat it would likely be many years before it became common knowledge that Manufacturer X's razors are indeed shave-ready and don't need to be sent out for honing. Maybe more, since many of the major outlets now hone the razors as a matter or course we would just attribute this to the retailer's in-house honers. And of course the honemeisters have an economic incentive to deny that factory edges might be shave-ready.

I say this because I believe this is essentially the situation we're in now. All but one new razor I have purchased in recent years has needed nothing more than a good stropping on unpasted linen to deliver an acceptable shave, and probably needing only a dozen or two laps or so on chrome oxide or dovo black to deliver a really outstanding shave.

 

[TstebinsB]

If you're confident enough to offer out your services, it's with the expectation that you have the necessary equipment and skill to do it correctly and quickly. As Glen mentioned, honing and restoration are different. If a razor is in such bad shape that you need to do some restoring before you can hone it, then we have a different situation. Unless that happens though, it shouldn't be that hard or take that long to hone virtually any razor. At that basic level, $20 is fine. I suppose it could be a little higher but not much. If you find yourself having trouble, for whatever reason, then quite frankly, you have no business honing people's razors.

 

[HankG]

That may be true for some honemeisters, but some of the more prominent ones have admitted to honing 500-1000 razors/month. At $20/razor of course they're in it for the money.

I'm surprised at those numbers. I really didn't think there were enough people shaving with straight razors to create that much business, not even counting all the other people honing and those who hone their own razors. Are there tens, or even hundreds, of thousands of people shaving with straight razors out there?

 

[Razorburne]

have any of you gotten a shave-ready razor from a reputable honemeister and it just didn't cut it? (whether it be tough beard that required a sharper blade or some other reason)???

just curious - no names of the honemeisters, please....I'm not looking to "out" anybody...just wondering if sometimes their services fall short of what's expected?

I believe somebody at some point clarified that "shave ready" simply means that the blade is sharp enough for someone somewhere to shave with it - but I suppose that means that the blade could be sharp enough for someone with thin wispy facial hair that only needs to shave every 3 days or more to shave with...but I guess that wouldn't be of much help to someone with thick coarse hair who needs to shave daily.

what do 'ye say?

 

[leighton]

I had one with some dimples in the edge, ie round shaped chips visible with the naked eye, but the blade was damn sharp. Honestly didn't expect any better either, because anything further is crossing the line into restoration.

As for 500 per month. You can do that easily if your honing factory blades for a few vendors that sell new razors. All speculation on my part, but think about it. It makes sense.