History of Tie Knots

[The Knize]

I was thinking, always a dangerous thing:

Famously, the Windsor knot was not invented by the Duke of Windsor (or his tailor) and he stated specifically that he never used that knot. He did like thicker ties that produced heavier bigger knots, though.

So, back in the day, was there only the four-in-hand knot? If there were other knots for tying what had become the standard necktie apart from bow ties, what were those knots and what were they called?

The half-Windsor really has little to do with a Windsor knot. Did it pre-exist the so-called Windsor knot? If so, what was it called before the Windsor knot?

I have never seen anything on any of these points. But it stands to reason that folks were wearing ties similar to what we wear today long before anyone came out with the so-called Windsor knot and that there much have been knots besides the four-in-hand, or if there was just the four-in-hand, why was that exactly??

Thanks for playing along!

 

[M80]

Edward Windsor had worked specifically with his tailor to create a necktie that would tie a wide knot using the four-in-hand. Many citizens saw photographs of this wide knot, and soon some had developed new knots that would achieve the same size and shape as the knot the Duke of Windsor was wearing. These knots were dubbed the Windsor Knot and the half-Windsor accordingly

http://anarchopedia.a.wiki-site.com/index.php/Necktie

 

[ramon]

Hey guys I recommended this book The Knots Handbook by Randy Penn 2006
This book is about the history of the knots and how to made .

 

[The Knize]

Good find, and I remember reading that text or text that seemed so closely related to it that it most have come from a common source.

Not a lot of cites to anything though. Somewhow it does not seem credible to me that the only tie knot before the Duke of W begam mucking around with tie widths and thickness to get a wider knot was the four in hand, though! Maybe.

Edward Windsor had worked specifically with his tailor to create a necktie that would tie a wide knot using the four-in-hand. Many citizens saw photographs of this wide knot, and soon some had developed new knots that would achieve the same size and shape as the knot the Duke of Windsor was wearing. These knots were dubbed the Windsor Knot and the half-Windsor accordingly

http://anarchopedia.a.wiki-site.com/index.php/Necktie

 

[Feraud]

The Book of Ties by Mosconi and Villarosa is a good reference book with lots of photos of classic tie knots.

 

[JaDo]

I seem to recall reading somewhere about the origin of the four-in-hand knot. Apparently, coachmen or carriage drivers used to tie their scarves in that manner, as well as the reins to the four horses pulling the carriage. Not sure how accurate that is, though.

 

[The Knize]

You guys suggesting books and the like confuse me with someone that is willing to undertake some effort on this!

So what do the books say exactly? Was there just the four in hand for what we think of as the conventional tie before the Windsor and off spring? If not what were the other knots like and why do not we use them today?! If there was just the one knot essentially, why was that the case?

Why would we have about 4 standard knots now, but only one back when the Duke of W was having his ties made thicker to get a bigger knot! Surely it must have occured to him to try different knots to get the same effect!