My thought is that the burrs for some reason might be out of alignment. This would cause problem such as what you describe. Apply some non-toxic paint to the stationary burr and run until they touch, and then check where the paint has worn out.
Grinder issue
- Thread starter jhadsell1883
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- #42
I tore the grinder down again and cleaned it well. I tightened everything in a pattern to make sure it was even. Also checked to see if there was a wobble. There is a slight variation but after removing the burr and tightening again it doesn't seem to change. When I zeroed it out it you can hear the burrs touch but tell it's not perfectly even. I checked the burr and can see a line where it rubbed, maybe 1/32 inside of the outside edge on the bottom burr.
I did a test shot on 4 and it still came through in about 10 seconds. I'm thinking the beans I'm using are probably out of the fresh range at this point. I've been watching a few auctions on eBay. Think it may be time for a change soon.
I did a test shot on 4 and it still came through in about 10 seconds. I'm thinking the beans I'm using are probably out of the fresh range at this point. I've been watching a few auctions on eBay. Think it may be time for a change soon.
From online videos that I have watched I have always seen some slight variation in how the burrs zero out and touch around a full rotation, meaning there would be a slighter high side and not 100% even around a full rotation. So you may have them correct now (as they may have been before). I would continue to step down on your grinder setting until run out of adjustments or choke your espresso machine.
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- #44
Newest try with Uganda from Bridge Street looked pretty good this morning. After cleaning, recalibrating, and grinding on 2 it was still a bit fast. I've toned down my tamping and been working on technique. Also went back to filling the basket and leveling off instead of weighing everything out.
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- #45
So I stopped by Crimson Cup today in a last shot to test my setup. I picked up a bag of their wayfarer blend that was roasted on Monday. Also got to try it while I was there. It was delicious and expertly pulled on a beautiful lever machine with bottomless portafilter.
So after I got home I tested the new beans with my setup. The first shot was at 3 with 17.5g. It finished in about 12 seconds. Second shot was at 2 with 18.5g and finished in 14 seconds. I'll post the second video below since it was a little better.
As for the taste comparison, both of mine were weak/watered down. I picked up some of the fruity taste (strawberry/citrus) in the second try at home. The crema looked ok but the rest was much lighter in color and more transparent.
So after I got home I tested the new beans with my setup. The first shot was at 3 with 17.5g. It finished in about 12 seconds. Second shot was at 2 with 18.5g and finished in 14 seconds. I'll post the second video below since it was a little better.
As for the taste comparison, both of mine were weak/watered down. I picked up some of the fruity taste (strawberry/citrus) in the second try at home. The crema looked ok but the rest was much lighter in color and more transparent.
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- #46
Here's the video from last night, MDF on 2 with Wayfarer beans
https://vimeo.com/166378199
https://vimeo.com/166378199
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- #47
Then I tested this morning with my Hario skerton on the second notch. It choked the machine with 14g and normal tamp. Tried again with light tamp and it came out a bit quicker bit only one side. Both attempts required me stopping it after about 15 second's then starting again, almost like a manual pre infusion. I still have the leaking stream wand to fix. I think that is causing part of the extraction issue since I'm getting much more water out of the steamer when being than not.
Here is the video with the skerton. Has to cut it down since it took so long. It's about 1 oz in 20 second's. End up cutting it off after 45 and 1.5 oz. Taste was much more similar to what I had yesterday.
https://vimeo.com/166388821
Here is the video with the skerton. Has to cut it down since it took so long. It's about 1 oz in 20 second's. End up cutting it off after 45 and 1.5 oz. Taste was much more similar to what I had yesterday.
https://vimeo.com/166388821
I wonder if your espresso machine simply works better with a pressurized portafilter. I have not used that type of portafilter or a pump machine like yours so I have no frame of reference, but in the first video the flow looks pretty even and steady but also pulsing out, as if there is a quick, short pressure wave increasing and decreasing as the shot is extracted. Maybe it is pulsing at higher than 9 bars of pressure and upsetting the coffee puck during extraction.
Except that is curious that you can easily choke the machine with the hand grinder but having a problem coming close to that on the MDF at its lowest setting. Maybe the MDF is better suited for drip and french press since it cannot choke your machine with a fully loaded basket. That and the minimal adjustability provided by the Hario skerton is making it very difficult for you to dial in the right grind and amount of coffee. Making you overly question your gear, technique, etc.
I am not suggesting that you should go out a buy a bottomless portafilter, but using one would help highlight issues with coffee distribution and tamping versus limits of the machine or grinder. In the second video it certainly looks like there is an uneven extraction taking place, though that could have been caused by the pseudo-"manual pre infusion".
Except that is curious that you can easily choke the machine with the hand grinder but having a problem coming close to that on the MDF at its lowest setting. Maybe the MDF is better suited for drip and french press since it cannot choke your machine with a fully loaded basket. That and the minimal adjustability provided by the Hario skerton is making it very difficult for you to dial in the right grind and amount of coffee. Making you overly question your gear, technique, etc.
I am not suggesting that you should go out a buy a bottomless portafilter, but using one would help highlight issues with coffee distribution and tamping versus limits of the machine or grinder. In the second video it certainly looks like there is an uneven extraction taking place, though that could have been caused by the pseudo-"manual pre infusion".
Check and replace your 3 way valve.
My Pasquini did the same thing when I bought it and the 3 way valve was shot
the 3 way valve releases pressure after the shot is done so you can remove the portafilter without getting sprayed. If it fails you don't get full pressure to the head
EDIT:..... WHY does the I and O keys have to be so close together......SHOT I say... SHOT!!!!! NOT...well you know
My Pasquini did the same thing when I bought it and the 3 way valve was shot
the 3 way valve releases pressure after the shot is done so you can remove the portafilter without getting sprayed. If it fails you don't get full pressure to the head
EDIT:..... WHY does the I and O keys have to be so close together......SHOT I say... SHOT!!!!! NOT...well you know
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- #50
Actually that's a great thought. I dismantled my machine a few months ago to remove the valve for deep cleaning since there was very little flow through the brew group. Also tore apart the boiler at that point and it worked well for a while. I know the valve is working somewhat though. Just backflushed the other day and was able to build pressure then it drained to the tray. Does that mean it is working normally? Or that it is worn out and replacing may fix issues?
I almost feel like I'm at the point of replacing the machine. All these parts are expensive and a few of them add up quickly. Sort of like how I wished I wouldn't have bought the new burrs for my grinder...
Are you on a municipal water supply or a well?
I could not find a published water quality report for Knox county (where you are located).
See if you can get a municipal water quality report or have your well tested for hardness/deposits.
Safe hardness for appliances such an espresso machine should be no more than 2 gpg (grains per gallon).
Your valving may be heavily deposited which is keeping them from operating properly.
I would suggest a de-calcification of your boiler and system and if that does not clear it up, you can disassemble and manually clean the valve and body. Granted this is all time consuming but I guess it all depends on what your time is worth and how much time you have to put into maintenance.
I am very lucky as our municipal water supply is extremely soft having almost no particulates. I still run my city water through 2 filters once the water enters my home anyway.
I could not find a published water quality report for Knox county (where you are located).
See if you can get a municipal water quality report or have your well tested for hardness/deposits.
Safe hardness for appliances such an espresso machine should be no more than 2 gpg (grains per gallon).
Your valving may be heavily deposited which is keeping them from operating properly.
I would suggest a de-calcification of your boiler and system and if that does not clear it up, you can disassemble and manually clean the valve and body. Granted this is all time consuming but I guess it all depends on what your time is worth and how much time you have to put into maintenance.
I am very lucky as our municipal water supply is extremely soft having almost no particulates. I still run my city water through 2 filters once the water enters my home anyway.
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- #52
I am on city water and have a filter in the tank. I also use a Britta to fill the tank. I went for a short period of time with no filters and that was when the 3 way valve first got clogged. Will try descaling again.
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- #53
I have temporarily 'fixed' my issues. I've been keeping my eye out for a new grinder/espresso machine either on sale or eBay and happened over to Craigslist this weekend. I am now the new owner of a Saeco Incanto Rondo. It was quite a deal at $75 considering all it needed was cleaned. There was a leak at the spot where the pressure adjustment is but I fixed that while I was cleaning it. The spout can be adjusted horizontally to allow for tall cups to be used. It had been slightly mis-aligned over the hole. I removed it to clean and it clicked back into its normal spot when re assembling and hasn't leaked since.
As for the espresso, even with the beans that were in it I'm very impressed. It keeps up with my in laws Jura. Ready to try some of the fresh roasted beans I have. I made a cappuccino last night and the stream takes longer to start but did a fair job after that.
With two young kids this should help with the morning routine as well. It's always a guess as to when they wake up and the process with a semi auto seemed to take about 15 mins of my attention to get a drink or two.
I'm sure I'll go back to semi auto at some point, maybe when I have a good grinder that can handle it. For now I will enjoy my good deal and the convenience it brings.
As for the espresso, even with the beans that were in it I'm very impressed. It keeps up with my in laws Jura. Ready to try some of the fresh roasted beans I have. I made a cappuccino last night and the stream takes longer to start but did a fair job after that.
With two young kids this should help with the morning routine as well. It's always a guess as to when they wake up and the process with a semi auto seemed to take about 15 mins of my attention to get a drink or two.
I'm sure I'll go back to semi auto at some point, maybe when I have a good grinder that can handle it. For now I will enjoy my good deal and the convenience it brings.
Good deal, glad to hear that you were able to obtain a quick score. In the meantime maybe you can continue to fiddle with your existing setup and get it performing better while having another machine to compare shots with. Or get a pour-over filter and/or french press to pair up with your rebuilt grinder to occasionally change up your coffee routine.
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- #55
I finally pulled the trigger on a new grinder. Got a good deal on a Vario refurb from Baratza.
Also got a baby twin for parts for shipping cost only. It came with the Silvia wand upgrade which I have swapped and also mostly fixed the leaking stream valve.
If the shots improve with the Vario I have a spare portafilter to convert to bottomless. I'll post back here once I get the grinder.
Also got a baby twin for parts for shipping cost only. It came with the Silvia wand upgrade which I have swapped and also mostly fixed the leaking stream valve.
If the shots improve with the Vario I have a spare portafilter to convert to bottomless. I'll post back here once I get the grinder.
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- #56
All ready for the new grinder, did a full cleaning of the espresso bar yesterday
I used a Verio-W for espresso for a long time. Nice grinder. Before I did the mods on my SJ I preferred it to the Mazzer. After the time dosing mods, I sold the Verio-W
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- #58
Just got the new grinder and dialed it in for some Starbucks blonde I had around. Pulled a 25 second shot (rough estimate with pre infusion) which I don't think I've ever done. I have a bag of Lavazza grand espresso coming later today so hopefully that is even better.
I ran through about 6 shots before getting good results but I think the coffee was probably sitting on the shelf for a while. Excited to see what I can do with some fresh roasted coffee!
I ran through about 6 shots before getting good results but I think the coffee was probably sitting on the shelf for a while. Excited to see what I can do with some fresh roasted coffee!
Good to hear you are having good results and are enjoying using it.
The Vario has a quirk in the settings mech. You need to make sure you have it running before making any adjustments. It is very susceptible to failure when forcing a setting change when it is sitting idle. It is a flat burr grinder not a conical so there is more surface in contact to bind up when you dry adjust.
Just a heads up for you to keep you out of trouble (and your Vario out of the shop)
The Vario has a quirk in the settings mech. You need to make sure you have it running before making any adjustments. It is very susceptible to failure when forcing a setting change when it is sitting idle. It is a flat burr grinder not a conical so there is more surface in contact to bind up when you dry adjust.
Just a heads up for you to keep you out of trouble (and your Vario out of the shop)
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- #60
Thanks for the tip. Fortunately I've gotten in a habit of always adjusting while running.
I also got the Lavazza and tried it out. I stuck with the same settings and got a great shot. I was going for 30ml like suggested in 25 seconds and let it go the full 25 since it was still looking good. Got 40ml with lots of crema, some tiger striping and great taste. Nothing that stood out flavor wise but it wasn't bitter and had great body.
I now understand why everyone stresses the grinder. My only regret is not upgrading sooner...
I also got the Lavazza and tried it out. I stuck with the same settings and got a great shot. I was going for 30ml like suggested in 25 seconds and let it go the full 25 since it was still looking good. Got 40ml with lots of crema, some tiger striping and great taste. Nothing that stood out flavor wise but it wasn't bitter and had great body.
I now understand why everyone stresses the grinder. My only regret is not upgrading sooner...
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