Gold Dollar Honing Woes

[genghishahn]

Hola B&B,

After doing a crap-ton of reading in the honing forum here, I decided to go the lapping film route. Also, inspired by the pimp-your-gd competition and seeing Seraphim's beautiful GD creations, I decided to get myself a handful and try to gradually put together a 7-day set.

The problem I seem to be having is that I cannot get the dang bevel set on them. I'm using a 12 micron film as my bevel setter and after, literally, 1000 laps it will not even cut arm hair off the 12 micron film. I've taken down the shoulders, tried heel-leading strokes, straights strokes, circles, x-strokes, with pressure, with minimal pressure, lots of water, just a few drops of water--pretty much any sort of advice that's been offered in the honing forum here, and even things I thought I'd try just for the heck of it. For the life of me, I can't get the bevel set.

So I'm thinking that the problem is one of three things:
1.) I'm just gawd awful at this honing thing.
2.) The granite surface I bought isn't flat (Woodcraft).
3.) I need to try a different bevel setter.

I'd like to say that my technique is decent enough since I was able to improve the edge on my Dovo, but I could very well be wrong. That I was able to improve the edge on the Dovo also leads me to believe that the granite surface is flat--it would have ruined the edge otherwise, no? So my thinking is that I need something else to set the bevel. A DMT 1200 is what I'm leaning towards.

I realize that GDs oftentimes have quirks that need to be worked out before they're really suitable for honing, but from what I've read here taking the shoulders down seems to be good enough for most people. I've ground down the shoulders, and even went as far as pretty much removing the shoulders entirely by shortening the blade from the heel.

I've been working on some scales on the side, but I want to know that I can get these things to shave before I even attempt to polish them and get them into those scales.

I see a lot of people suggesting that honing-newbies stay away from GDs and look into vintage ebay razors, but I'm really in love with the idea of taking a $3 razor-shaped piece of metal and turning it into something awesome with my own two hands. I'm gonna keep at it until I get it right, but since I seem to be stuck I thought ask you kind folks for some help.

Any thoughts/advice?

Scott

 

[ANeat]

I would recommend some coarser sandpaper to set your bevel. Or as you were thinking a DMT would do the trick.. The finer films are great but when you need to remove some metal something a little more aggressive is in order.

Lots of Gold Dollar fans here, Its a great base for a razor

 

[genghishahn]

Thanks, Adam! I was under the impression, from other lapping film threads, that the 12k film is more or less the equivalent of a 1200 grit stone. And that my 5, 3, and 1 micron films would roughly equate to 4k, 8k, and 12k stones.

So basically, 12 micron film cannot take the place of a 1200 grit stone when it comes to setting bevels. Dangit.

1 vote for a new bevel setter.

DMT users: any thoughts on whether the DMT 1200 would do the trick for setting bevels? Or would something courser be mo' betta?

Scott

 

[coachschaller]

The film is ok for a piece that may have a decent bevel on it before. But, I need a stone to do real bevel work the 12 micron just isn't enough.

 

[global_dev]

Thanks, Adam! I was under the impression, from other lapping film threads, that the 12k film is more or less the equivalent of a 1200 grit stone. And that my 5, 3, and 1 micron films would roughly equate to 4k, 8k, and 12k stones.

So basically, 12 micron film cannot take the place of a 1200 grit stone when it comes to setting bevels. Dangit.

1 vote for a new bevel setter.

DMT users: any thoughts on whether the DMT 1200 would do the trick for setting bevels? Or would something courser be mo' betta?

Scott

the EF (100) DMT will work, just make sure it's worn in is the typical advice. It also appears that in one of teh vids, slash mccoy was using tape an really getting down with the pressure to get the bevel. have you tried that style?

 

[Doc226]

For the initial GD bevel set it takes some muscle. I usually do it on a DMT 325 and it can take some time.

Thr Saran Wrap does not have the power for the initial phase of the heavy work needed.

 

[Obiwan]

For the initial GD bevel set it takes some muscle. I usually do it on a DMT 325 and it can take some time.

Thr Saran Wrap does not have the power for the initial phase of the heavy work needed.

+1. I've even used my DMT 220 in some cases to save time.

 

[Firewalker]

Hola B&B,
...The problem I seem to be having is that I cannot get the dang bevel set on them. I'm using a 12 micron film as my bevel setter and after, literally, 1000 laps it will not even cut arm hair off the 12 micron film. I've taken down the shoulders, tried heel-leading strokes, straights strokes, circles, x-strokes, with pressure, with minimal pressure, lots of water, just a few drops of water--pretty much any sort of advice that's been offered in the honing forum here, and even things I thought I'd try just for the heck of it. For the life of me, I can't get the bevel set.

Any thoughts/advice?

Scott

Holy Cow! No wonder you are having issues with getting the bevel set. I use a 325 grit (45 micron) DMT to set the initial bevel, the GD I honed last night took 30 minutes, several pieces of tape even though I was lifting the spine some and a lot of down pressure. I moved on to the 600 grit (25 micron) DMT to clean up the edge from the 325 DMT and get it sharp enough to shave arm hair. I then moved on to the 1200 grit DMT (9 micron) to clean up the 600 DMT.

I didn't get on the u12 lapping film for a good hour after I started working on the razor. BUT, because I spend all that time getting the bevel set correctly, working through the lapping film took no more than 30 minutes. I finished with 100 strokes on a Whipped Dog strop and did a WTG shave with it right after.

Hang in there and get a good bevel setter to get that bevel set properly.

 

[Seraphim]

Lapping film is not for setting bevels.

Get a DMT 600 or 1200 and wail away on that thing.

 

[global_dev]

do you guys prefer, the DMT whetstone, diasharp or duo sharp? interrupted or continuous? 6x2 8x3, etc? maybe i'll start a new thread with a poll..

 

[Firewalker]

do you guys prefer, the DMT whetstone, diasharp or duo sharp? interrupted or continuous? 6x2 8x3, etc? maybe i'll start a new thread with a poll..

I am all for the new poll.

I am partial to both of them but for different reasons. The Diasharp stones are fantastic for consistent material removal but with only one face, they are more expensive than the Duosharp stones with two faces. The Duosharp stones leave a pattern on the edge that has to be removed.

 

[global_dev]

I am all for the new poll.

I am partial to both of them but for different reasons. The Diasharp stones are fantastic for consistent material removal but with only one face, they are more expensive than the Duosharp stones with two faces. The Duosharp stones leave a pattern on the edge that has to be removed.

new poll made! check http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/339336-DMT-bench-stone-general-preference

 

[genghishahn]

Thanks for your replies everyone! I really appreciate it So it looks like I will be getting myself a DMT for bevels. I got an offer for a 1200 from one of the members here, and I'm thinking to take him up on it. I am wondering though if I should get a 600 instead. If I start with a 600 as my bevel setter, would moving to the 12 micron film afterwards work out ok? Or would I need to hit the DMT 1200 beforehand? Thanks again everyone!

Best,
Scott

 

[Firewalker]

No, the 1200 is a u9 stone, I just use it to spare my film. I suggest the Red/blue Duo combo, two stones in one slab.

 

[hoffig]

I have a GD that I got sharp. It could be done with lots of work on a coarse stone (I used 300/600 diamond that worked much better than an initial try with a 400 stone. At 1k level it would have taken forever! It was no fast task at 300/600 diamond either.)

I had some serious problems to attend to that made it more difficult. I fixed them after learning some sharpening in the original condition. The shoulder needed grinding and the blade was a bit curved too. After working it straight and fixing the shoulder it got a lot easier to work with.

 

[global_dev]

also i had 3 versions of the 66 model straight from china. 2 of them came with a parallel edge to teh spine and one came with a~ mm difference between point and heel, with the point being less wide.. it would have been better flipped but you make do with what you get.

could your example be non parallel to the spine to begin with?

 

[mvk]

Ask Krodor. He PIF'd me a GD and it had a great edge on it. He has done quite a few & should be able to help you out. I have been able to maintain mine just fine, but I have not tried to get one shave ready myself yet. I would also like to put together a set some day.

 

[genghishahn]

also i had 3 versions of the 66 model straight from china. 2 of them came with a parallel edge to teh spine and one came with a~ mm difference between point and heel, with the point being less wide.. it would have been better flipped but you make do with what you get.

could your example be non parallel to the spine to begin with?

Jon,
If I'm understanding you correctly you're referring to the distance between edge and spine being inconsistent along the blade. The one that I've been working on seems to be a little off, with the point being a little wider to my eye. Sorry for the crappy cellphone picture--my camera is out of juice. Does it look like something that I'm going to need to correct before it will be honeable?

Scott

 

[global_dev]

It looks like it is bit biased. What does anyone else think? Is the bevel width consistent?

 

[genghishahn]

The bevel width is consistent along the middle section of the blade, but seems narrower at the toe and heel. I want to say that the narrower bevel at the heel was because the remnants of the shoulders were intruding onto the honing surface--but I can't really be sure, since I haven't put the blade to the film since my second attack on the shoulders.

I'm not really sure what's causing the narrower bevel at the toe though... could the bias be the culprit?

On a side note: I ordered a DMT600 and a loupe the other day, they should be arriving tomorrow. I'll put some work in with them after work tomorrow night and post an update.