Gold Bulldog with the "G in D"

[lilou]

Hi,
it's my first message !
Just about a new piece to an old puzzle...
I received this morning an old bulldog: hard to find in France...
Although it has much plating loss, it's a gold bulldog (with no handle cracks I attached pictures with is silver brother).
What is really strange is that it has the "G in D" mark.
I have three "G in D" (+ a silver tuckaway, I offered to my brother): 2x102 (more "G in square", see attached pictures) and a 102 A ("G in D" not pictured).
Puzzling because, I always thought it was only a silver mark (for the french or european market).
Regards,
lilou

 

[ateace]

Hello and welcome to B&B!!

My understanding is that these were returned to Gillette due to defects.
They were repaired and subsequently stamped with the "G" (Gillette) inside a "D" (defect) and returned to the customer.

 

[alex2363]

Welcome to B&B.............I believe the G in D means it was sent back for repairs.

 

[alex2363]

Hello and welcome to B&B!!

My understanding is that these were returned to Gillette due to defects.
They were repaired and subsequently stamped with the "G" (Gillette) inside a "D" (defect) and returned to the customer.

Sorry, you beat me to it by one minute...I'm slow typer.

 

[DutchmanRiver]

GD do not mean that it was send back for repair. dont know why all the people think that. lilou is right, cause GD means it was manufactured/sold in europe

 

[lilou]

Thanks for the replies,
I was seeking this old thread which explains the european market theory:

Another Gillette with the unusual mark under the head

 

[mr-razor]

GD do not mean that it was send back for repair. dont know why all the people think that. lilou is right, cause GD means it was manufactured/sold in europe

+1

US made razor for the european market

 

[MacDaddy]

This is very interesting. It's the first time I've seen this mark on a gold-plated razor, too.

The notion that the mark is an indication that the razor was sent in for repairs has nothing at all to support it. In fact, we've seen the mark even on this pretty undeniably NOS Olympic Special Pioneer set that James unboxed a while back. So I think we can pretty safely put the final nail in that theory's coffin.

I would still go with this being a mark indicating that the razor was made for the continental European market -- quite possibly France specifically -- but perhaps it was broader than just silverplate.

 

[MacDaddy]

+1

US made razor for the european market

It doesn't seem that it was only on razors that were made in the US. Jake's got this two-piece Belmont that was made in England for the French market that also has a version of the mark. Perhaps it was a French requirement on imported plated goods?

 

[ERVARGASNY]

Nice info to absorb )

 

[alex2363]

This is very interesting. It's the first time I've seen this mark on a gold-plated razor, too.

The notion that the mark is an indication that the razor was sent in for repairs has nothing at all to support it. In fact, we've seen the mark even on this pretty undeniably NOS Olympic Special Pioneer set that James unboxed a while back. So I think we can pretty safely put the final nail in that theory's coffin.

I would still go with this being a mark indicating that the razor was made for the continental European market -- quite possibly France specifically -- but perhaps it was broader than just silverplate.

Thanks porter, I always though it was Gillette Defect symbol...but i trust your knowledge. Also, why wouldn't Gillette make gold Bulldog razors in Euro market?

 

[Krona Kruiser]

I want one!

 

[alex2363]

I want one!

They are hard to find.

 

[MacDaddy]

Also, why wouldn't Gillette make gold Bulldog razors in Euro market?

Not saying that they didn't. I'd just only ever seen the G-inside-D mark on silver-plated razors before, which made me think that perhaps the mark was unique to silver for some reason. Now it just seems that maybe gold-plated razors of this era from the French market (or wherever this mark was used/required) may just be exceedingly uncommon.

 

[BBrad]

Not saying that they didn't. I'd just only ever seen the G-inside-D mark on silver-plated razors before, which made me think that perhaps the mark was unique to silver for some reason. Now it just seems that maybe gold-plated razors of this era from the French market (or wherever this mark was used/required) may just be exceedingly uncommon.

Could it be that the top-end gold-plated razors were gold over silver? The mark was already on the silver component that was subsequently gold plated.

 

[celestino]

Congratulations on the beautiful razor and welcome to the forum!

 

[lilou]

Thanks for the welcome and the comments!
Thanks for the picture of Jake's Belmont (Beauty !!). It is double-trouble for the "Importé d'Angleterre"+ "GinD" marks were put on a chromium (?) razor.
I have a #77 silver plated with the "Importé d'Angleterre" mark (not on the head but around the upper part of the handle) but it doesn't bare the "GinD".
It looks redundant to have both marks, no?
Regards,
lilou

BBrad: I can't see traces of silver plating on it even with the excessive plating loss. It would have been so nice to have it factory plated in silver + gold but I think it would have been quite expensive...

 

[MacDaddy]

Thanks for the welcome and the comments!
Thanks for the picture of Jake's Belmont (Beauty !!). It is double-trouble for the "Importé d'Angleterre"+ "GinD" marks were put on a chromium (?) razor.
I have a #77 silver plated with the "Importé d'Angleterre" mark (not on the head but around the upper part of the handle) but it doesn't bare the "GinD".
It looks redundant to have both marks, no?

If you look at some of the other photos over in Jake's thread about that Belmont it looks more like it's silver plated rather than chromium, like the American Belmonts were. Jake commented the same when he posted it, too. I've also got a British two-piece Belmont that's just a standard "Made in England" model and it's definitely silver plated.

As for why a No. 77 wouldn't have the mark, it's possible that Jake's Belmont is just and early example, and that by the time your 77 was made either the laws changed to no longer require the mark or Gillette just decided to discontinue the practice of marking those pieces, whichever was the case originally. (I personally think it's more likely that they were required to do it, since it seems unlikely that they'd have changed their standard process for one market "just because.") It would be great to find out if France did have some sort of marking requirement on imported plated goods like this in place during the early part of the 20th Century. If only we had someone local who could do the research...

 

[lilou]

I've been reading here and there on the internet and found scarce informations about laws in France: it seems that under 3 microns (or 10 depending on the source) of plating there is no need to have a specific mark.
There is a site indicating that the first law about plating marks dates back to 1860: platers need to write their initials in a square ("poinçon carré") but that it did not guarantee the qualitiy of plating and that, most of the time, platers use only their own trade mark (i.e. not in a square) till the modification of the law in 1985.
One thing I read is that the customs may have a copy of importers plating marks (but that may be too difficult to get access to it...).

 

[MacDaddy]

I've been reading here and there on the internet and found scarce informations about laws in France: it seems that under 3 microns (or 10 depending on the source) of plating there is no need to have a specific mark.
There is a site indicating that the first law about plating marks dates back to 1860: platers need to write their initials in a square ("poinçon carré") but that it did not guarantee the qualitiy of plating and that, most of the time, platers use only their own trade mark (i.e. not in a square) till the modification of the law in 1985.
One thing I read is that the customs may have a copy of importers plating marks (but that may be too difficult to get access to it...).

THANK YOU! Even sketchy, this is awesome information. I'm going to have to try to make it through the information on that page you linked to. My French is poor to non-existant, but I think I can make it out with the help of machine translations.

That site appears to be focused specifically on silver and silverplate, so it's not clear if that was only a requirement for silver or if the site just doesn't speak of gold to say it may have been required there as well. Do you know anything about that?

Assuming for a moment that it was only required for silver-plated items, one possibility that we haven't really considered yet is that maybe the stamping of your gold razor was simply a mistake. Another possibility is that even if the mark wasn't required on gold-plated items, as long as it wasn't disallowed either it could have been easier for Gillette to just streamline their process for fulfilling shipments to France by handling all their parts the same way.

One other thing to tie back into our earlier discussion to go back to your question about the No. 77, maybe the plating layer on those razors was thin enough that it fell outside the requirements for marking.