Frowning on Pacocot

[BakerAndBadger]

Ok, in the interest of nothing other than curiosity I decided to give a go at Pacocot with my newest coticule and a little puma I picked up a while back. Now, I set the bevel at the weekend and although there is a slight frown on the blade I decided to give it a quick go whilst waiting for the dog to come in from the garden. I stropped and went to bed.
Shaved with it this morning and wow, I have to say probably one of my best shaves and least irritation. So the verdict is that my new coticule works well with Pacocot and my little Puma is a lovely razor. I'm going to bread knife it when I get a chance but why do we frown upon frowns?
As no one believes unless we post pictures, here you are:
Was used to hone this:

 

[paco664]

glad to know it worked for you....

i feel honored i have a honing method named after me.....

there ain't much frown on that little rascal.... don't get carried away with the bread-knifing....

 

[cleanshaved]

hard to see a frown in the razor. are you sure you want or need to breadknife it?
Could this also be a case of play some more with the coti before lapping it wafer thin.

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Not gonna lap it at all other than crossways. Gonna keep it dished. It's got character. Someone has obviously honed a lot of razors or knives on it over the years. I'm even wondering if the great edge I got is more down to the coti and less my improving technique - will try and find more honing time.

Brian, it's a revelation, you are a honing pioneer! Much less mucky than playing with slurry so the missus doesn't shout at me for leaving chalky marks on the sink or the black granite worktop.

 

[Doc226]

Brian, it's a revelation, you are a honing pioneer! Much less mucky than playing with slurry so the missus doesn't shout at me for leaving chalky marks on the sink or the black granite worktop.

I thought he was nuts when he first mentioned this method (heck I still think he is nuts but for other reasons-LOL) but it works.

Goes to show you there is no one way to do things, keep experimenting, just because that is the way it was done means nothing.

 

[SliceOfLife]

We frown on frowns because most frowns are much frownier than your frown.

I've seen razors that were almost twice as deep in the heal and toe as in the center.

 

[xMackx]

So the pacocot is oil on coticule no slurry?

 

[Alum of Potash]

Not gonna lap it at all other than crossways. Gonna keep it dished. It's got character. Someone has obviously honed a lot of razors or knives on it over the years. I'm even wondering if the great edge I got is more down to the coti and less my improving technique - will try and find more honing time.

I would suggest not lapping it at all for the time being, especially if you're getting a good result this way. It took quite a lot of love for the rock to have the shape it has (I saw the earlier pix), and any subsequent lapping will bring things back a bit IMO. If you can use as is, use it!

 

[paco664]

So the pacocot is oil on coticule no slurry?

no... it is regular honing on a coti but starting with fairly serious pressure to speed things along... as you go you ease up on the pressure until you are using just enough to keep the edge flat on the hone....

you can also use oil or diamond spray to finish... or plain water....

i can go from dull on glass to shave ready in ~4-5mins.... *(taking time to drink beer)...

 

[xMackx]

no... it is regular honing on a coti but starting with fairly serious pressure to speed things along... as you go you ease up on the pressure until you are using just enough to keep the edge flat on the hone....

you can also use oil or diamond spray to finish... or plain water....

i can go from dull on glass to shave ready in ~4-5mins.... *(taking time to drink beer)...

Your pressure method is how I hone on every stone in my progression, really speeds things up so you can focus on finishing.

 

[paco664]

Your pressure method is how I hone on every stone in my progression, really speeds things up so you can focus on finishing.

that is it...... you now know everything i do.....


*(sigh.... )

 

[BakerAndBadger]

The secret is out! Paco is no longer the mysterious honing enigma that he once was!

 

[paco664]

The secret is out! Paco is no longer the mysterious honing enigma that he once was!

ahh... fame.. that fleeting flittering butterfly has gone on to another flower....

i feel... so empty and alone...

 

[BakerAndBadger]

By the way, had another bash at honing the Paco way last night. Went from a razor with the bevel set to shave ready in just over 5 minutes on the same coticule. I've officially decided I love this quirky little stone! It seems that the previous owner must have had similar success or it wouldn't be so dished, I'm gonna leave it as is now, no lapping for me!

 

[Legion]

Pacocot. Jeez.

Seriously, that is a good option, and it is good that is working for you with your stone. You probably got away with the slight frown, helped by the fact that the stone is so narrow. One of the reasons why some people like the skinny stones.

Personally I too start with pressure and lighten as I go. But you have to judge how much by the type of blade. A more wedgy blade can take more pressure than a really thin hollow grind, because it is less inclined to flex.

My routine is, for want of a better term, unuscot, or one dilution. Start with a slurry, moderate pressure and set the bevel. Then go to just water, half strokes, full strokes, and lightening the pressure as I go.

It's all about experimentation and learning the rock you have. Plenty of ways to flay the feline.

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Yeah, I've carried on practicing and I'm now getting pretty quick at getting a great edge off this little coti. Did four razors yesterday, two of them in the early hours of this morning after wine and whiskey. Gonna try those two now!

 

[Gamma]

start with pressure and lighten as I go. But you have to judge how much by the type of blade. A more wedgy blade can take more pressure than a really thin hollow grind, because it is less inclined to flex.

+1

Can't just use pressure indiscriminately - some blades flex with even slight pressure. I have a 15/16 Dorko that wil flex if you sneeze near it.
Flexing the blade on the stone will distort the bevel, and raise the edge up off the stone, plus it will wear the spine excessively. Those are facts - now my opinion; smoothing out an edge that was set up with excessive pressure in the early or previous stage/s requires a lot of unnecessary work.

That's just my take on things. I use a fair amount of pressure on some blades to cut a bevel - after that I'm light-handed.
Starting at Botan, and progressing forward - I decrease the amount of pressure at the start of each stage and I back off on the pressure during each stage as I go.
By the time I get to water-only finish laps there I'm working with weight-of-the-blade leading to less-than-weight-of-the-blade pressure.

For Coticules - which I really don't use anymore, and I rarely set bevels on them - the scenario was basically the same through the dilutions.

Undoubtedly - whatever works for you - works for you.
Excessive pressure does not work for me though.

When I started honing I used too much pressure and it created more problems than it solved; excessive spine wear, uneven bevels, rough eddges, etc.

Developing an efficient stroke-set sequence eliminated my need to push the blade with pressure - and it allowed my honing skills to progress.

I actually hone wedges the same way - even though they're robust enough to deal with a bunch of pressure, I usually have no need to push on a wedge any more than I do with a hollow. I have a SS Dovo 5/8 here now - it's a hollow and it needs a tad bit more pressure than others. Not much, just a bit.

Now - one more thing; everyone's understanding of 'pressure' is going to be different - i.e. -my 'medium' pressure could be your 'light' pressure.
I'm fairly heavy-handed - so that's a variable that should be considered for the sake of conversation.
It's very possible that we're all talking about the same thing but we're using different words.

 

[paco664]

when i use the term "pressure"... i don't mean knife pressure....

 

[xMackx]

I think the use of pressure is highly under rated with new honers trying to learn, so many people say never use pressure just weight of the blade and I think that's the reason you see new honers saying just spent 6 hours on a blade. +1 on whats said above about different grinds flex easier. For me I start with more pressure on every stone to get that scratch pattern replaced then lessen pressure to just finishing pressure (weight of blade), then onto the next stone.

And I'm sure you still can teach me a thing or two Brian. When I think I know everything, that just means I stopped learning.