Exceedingly discouraged

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

As I recall you're honing on film using The Method. It occurs to me you might want to ask guys who use The Method about this. It occurs to me that part of The Method for a lot of gentlemen who use it is daily maintenance on pasted balsa. Maybe that would be helpful to you? Maybe a Method Edge + a tough beard requires that sort of daily refreshing.

I'm not a film user and not very up on anything film or pasted balsa related, but I believe I've read something along those lines...ask around.

Some guys I know use the films but then put the film-created edge to a natural stone.

Plenty of people including me sometimes use pasted strops after the stones and/or sometimes touch up edges which seem to need it on pasted strops. I certainly don't always do that, and don't use the pasted strops very often as I prefer to try to maintain my edges by linen and leather stropping, but I use the pasted strops when I feel the need.

I became persuaded to try stropping both after every shave and again before every shave and believe that helpful.

I've heard of gentlemen having a small stone in their bathroom which they use for a few laps during the shave if they feel a need. I assume they have a bathroom strop to follow the stone but maybe not.

What angle is your razor at? How far off your skin is the spine? How wide is your razor? The sharper the razor the closer the spine can be to my skin (I don't know if that's a universal thing but I believe it might be).

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Twelvefret]

Rofl - thanks fellas!

Jim, I think it is still too early to tell, but at the moment my money is on the initial knockdown pass.

Everyone who knows me and has had reason to touch my face while I had whiskers will attest to the thought that I have much tougher than usual facial hair. While I can accept that to a limited degree, I find it hard to fathom that well prepared facial hair would have a blunting effect on a hardened steel razor (even with a very fine edge) so rapidly as I have been frustrated by over the last several months. I was quite sure it isn’t the whiskers being tough, it’s the shaver doing something counterproductive - stropping badly, or somesuch. However, so far, the initial results are beginning to lean towards tough beard vs relatively softer steel, or very tough beard vs perfectly reasonable steel.

As I said, it’s still too early to tell for sure. If I get 5 shaves nice out of this blade, I’ll believe that a bit more, but I think shave #6 would be the real deal sealer - I don’t think I’ve ever gotten 6 consecutive shaves on the same blade without deciding the edge has quit for one reason or another.

For me the knock down was a step that really paid off. I’ve even down a knock down with the straight. Just something to reduce the growth so I could then concentrate on a good result.

 

[Dzaw]

Blood makes poor lather

There it is folks, the last entry in my shave journal. To put it short - #100 was a good shave. As an incidental / aside, this is the first time I've shaved with a straight for this many consecutive days. I may have to take the weekend (or at least Sunday) off for schedule reasons, but it was a good experience.

This edge is still holding up beautifully. I am pretty sure at this point that the knockdown pass is really helping edge longevity. I will continue to update this thread as the experiment in edge life (and stropping) continues, but I doubt I'll be entering every shave in the journal anymore.

Jim - I did note one thing about this test that has me scratching my head. I had previously been a method user. Then I switched to the science of sharp, which results in a similarly very keen edge. Most of my shaving is done with the spine nearly touching my face, if not outright riding on the skin, but some areas are a little steeper.

Since I started this experiment, I have not touched the abrasive embedded balsa. It occurred to me last night that I may have been making foil edges on the balsa by hitting it between every shave, and that could well be the culprit behind my frustration!

The "Method" threads do talk about using pull strokes to avoid / mitigate the foil edge problem, and I had been pretty religiously following the prescribed methods to alleviate foil edges, but I suppose the real possibility exists anyhow that in daily stropping on balsa with abrasive (however fine) embedded in it, I could instead of improving, be degrading my edge quality at quite an accelerated pace.

I am seriously considering some Arkansas hones (at least a translucent and a black) to try for finishing. If I do, and if I like them, I will probably keep the black in the bathroom for touchups.

Time will tell. In another few shaves, I fully expect this edge to start showing its wear. If the other razor shaves well after that, then I know that my honing and stropping aren't to blame. If I could get 6 shaves per razor between touch ups, that would be much more acceptable!

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

You did it!

So, doing the Science of Sharp, what are you finishing on?

I have a Norton Hard Translucent Arkansas and a Hard Black Arkansas (from Sharpening Supplies, better price, but mined by Dan's). I would not suggest buying both a Translucent Hard Ark and a Hard Black Ark because they are so similar as to be redundant or close. I like the Norton just a little bit more than the black but both are great.

However, I like my rectangular and smaller (about 7x2) coticule even more because it's so fun to use and so versatile. The caveat is coticule edges might be a tad less sharp than edges off the Ark but they sure are comfortable.

I've used it just once but I am incredibly impressed with my Zulu Grey. What an edge!

One Ark I am interested in, for no compelling reason, is Jarrod's glued together soft and hard double convexed combination stone.

Congratulations on completing the project. Several gentlemen told me that many, perhaps most, guys who attempt the straight hundred drop out. It's an accomplishment. Of more importance, you've learned a huge amount.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Dzaw]

Thanks Jim, it’s been quite a ride!

With the science method, you set up on a 1 k or similar bevel setting hone, then progress immediately to a 4K and hone edge trailing for 30 or so laps. This makes a severe, but more importantly EVEN foil edge. You then proceed to a denim strop with a metal polish such as mothers, flitz, or simichrome (the original author has tried all these and not noted any difference under scanning electron microscope). You strop on the denim some 30 or so laps with moderate pressure to polish away the fin edge. Then, finish on .5 micron diamond in leather is the classic prescription. I altered that to go the .5 micron in balsa, and followed it up with the .25 and .1 all in balsa. According to a lot of the information and electron microscopy on that site, the resulting edge should be equivalent to, or maybe just tad keener than a feather injector blade. It seems to work, but the edge is severely unforgiving of even tiny errors in technique. When my shaving is on, man is it ON!

 

[toccosupreme]

I’ve gotta say. I just spent the better part of the last day reading this entire thread when I had the chance. You guys are awesome. I’m so glad to be a part of this forum. So much information on here and you guys are all super supportive. And to the OP, I’m glad everything’s working out for you!!

 

[Dzaw]

Thanks for the well wishes! These really are the finest gentlemen I’ve ever interacted with!

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Thanks Jim, it’s been quite a ride!

With the science method, you set up on a 1 k or similar bevel setting hone, then progress immediately to a 4K and hone edge trailing for 30 or so laps. This makes a severe, but more importantly EVEN foil edge. You then proceed to a denim strop with a metal polish such as mothers, flitz, or simichrome (the original author has tried all these and not noted any difference under scanning electron microscope). You strop on the denim some 30 or so laps with moderate pressure to polish away the fin edge. Then, finish on .5 micron diamond in leather is the classic prescription. I altered that to go the .5 micron in balsa, and followed it up with the .25 and .1 all in balsa. According to a lot of the information and electron microscopy on that site, the resulting edge should be equivalent to, or maybe just tad keener than a feather injector blade. It seems to work, but the edge is severely unforgiving of even tiny errors in technique. When my shaving is on, man is it ON!

My guess? The edge you're getting is so fine (small, sharp, thin) that it's not holding up. I suspect that it's really much like a Method edge and thus might need daily or quite frequent touchups a la the pasted balsa (or similar).

I apologize for having forgotten the details of the Science of Sharp method. It surely is an interesting website.

I haven't used edges that I know to be as sharp as yours, but I don't think I'd want to either. I'm interested in comfort first. The edges I'm recently getting with natural stones are comfortable and plenty sharp and also seem to hold up at least reasonably well.

Of course I'll go for an even sharper edge if the comfort doesn't suffer nor the longevity of the edge.

I've got a long way to go in mastering everything SR related - shaving, stone selection and understanding, honing, paste selection, maintaining, stropping - but at least I believe I'm finally on the road that leads to the ballpark.

I don't think that knockdown pass is hurting anything, but it's gotta go sometime if you want to really test those edges, right? Of course, you might want to keep it forever in which case it's not anybody else's business and I should hush up.

Thinking of your son and his birthday, I knew in college brothers who'd learned the straight razor from their grandfather. They were impressive and got loads of points in the large shave den in the fraternity house where a bunch of amateur, bad safety razor shavers (like me) offered zero competition. I was a master of razor burn creation.

I’ve gotta say. I just spent the better part of the last day reading this entire thread when I had the chance. You guys are awesome. I’m so glad to be a part of this forum. So much information on here and you guys are all super supportive. And to the OP, I’m glad everything’s working out for you!!

Thanks for the well wishes! These really are the finest gentlemen I’ve ever interacted with!

It's an amazingly generous and supportive community in my experience of it.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Twelvefret]

The knock down and be accomplished with the straight. It's simply a quick way to thin reduce growth.

 

[MilkCrate]

Knew you had it! Congrats on the 100!

 

[Dzaw]

So, I am taking the weekend off - as much for scheduling reasons as to let nicks heal up. Plan to pick it back up on Monday for shave #6 on this edge.

Right now SWMBO is less than thrilled with the idea of even more shaving gear making its way into the house, so a new razor for the middle son is probably not happening for birthday this year. However, in the conversation that came out of that, my youngest expressed interest in learning the straight...

 

[Twelvefret]

So, I am taking the weekend off - as much for scheduling reasons as to let nicks heal up. Plan to pick it back up on Monday for shave #6 on this edge.

Right now SWMBO is less than thrilled with the idea of even more shaving gear making its way into the house, so a new razor for the middle son is probably not happening for birthday this year. However, in the conversation that came out of that, my youngest expressed interest in learning the straight...

Don't give up on the knock down pass. I feel it's an archaic notion we must only use one razor to accomplish a task. My plumbing project included channel lock, Crescent, and Rigid pipe wrenches.

 

[Dzaw]

Oh, I don’t disagree in the least - no shame in using the tools at our disposal. For me it is more about the rhythm of the habit. I had a comfortable, pleasant, almost meditative order that is currently being interrupted by an experiment. If I can take from the experiment a useful tool, and also marry that tool into the comfortable ritual that kind of developed organically, and get a best of both out of it, that would be the goal. I am hoping that a quick knockdown with a straight before my first “real” pass could help me get that best of both kind of vibe.

 

[Twelvefret]

Oh, I don’t disagree in the least - no shame in using the tools at our disposal. For me it is more about the rhythm of the habit. I had a comfortable, pleasant, almost meditative order that is currently being interrupted by an experiment. If I can take from the experiment a useful tool, and also marry that tool into the comfortable ritual that kind of developed organically, and get a best of both out of it, that would be the goal. I am hoping that a quick knockdown with a straight before my first “real” pass could help me get that best of both kind of vibe.

You could even use a different SR for the knock down thus preserving the main SR edge for subsequent more detailed passes. I think over time, you will evolve into what you right now desire to occur.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

It's not morally wrong or operationally wrong to do the job with several tools but I like the elegance if you will of one straight razor.

One at a time. One per shave. Not just one in my den.

Dan, I have great understanding of your wife's position having heard it all from mine. Yet, sometimes, my wife wants to buy me shaving gear. I am very supportive of her hobby, quilting, which is very expensive in terms of time and money. Maybe that helps. Maybe not.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Twelvefret]

Ha, well I do no see the elegance of using one tool. If I had tried to use the Rigid pipe wrench on the faucet I was replacing, I would have ruined the thing. Why do we think that shaving is different from other jobs? Cannot say, but I think there is an element of ego involved.

 

[Dzaw]

This reminds me of a phrase I once coined -

What makes humans different from animals? Surely not intelligence. Octopi, sharks, and dolphins have all been proven to possess multi step problem solving logic, object permanence, and complex communication. All the hallmarks off intelligence.

Certainly not tools. Various other animals use rocks, trees, or sticks to accomplish tasks they cannot accomplish without. Some species of primates will even use one tool to alter / make another, and will keep a particularly good tool for future use.

No, what makes us humans unique is our ability to deliberately choose the wrong tool for the job. Only a human can be laying under a car, discover he needs the 11 mm socket that he knows is 30 steps away in his toolchest, and decide “screw it” and attempt to use the pliers that are right next to him. Only a human will ever know the unique mix of pain, shame, pride, and embarrassment of actually accomplishing the task with those pliers, but having rounded off the bolt head to uselessness in the process, and having skinned his knuckles as the price, all the time aware that the correct tool was within reach if he would only get up and walk over to it.

 

[Twelvefret]

This reminds me of a phrase I once coined -

What makes humans different from animals? Surely not intelligence. Octopi, sharks, and dolphins have all been proven to possess multi step problem solving logic, object permanence, and complex communication. All the hallmarks off intelligence.

Certainly not tools. Various other animals use rocks, trees, or sticks to accomplish tasks they cannot accomplish without. Some species of primates will even use one tool to alter / make another, and will keep a particularly good tool for future use.

No, what makes us humans unique is our ability to deliberately choose the wrong tool for the job. Only a human can be laying under a car, discover he needs the 11 mm socket that he knows is 30 steps away in his toolchest, and decide “screw it” and attempt to use the pliers that are right next to him. Only a human will ever know the unique mix of pain, shame, pride, and embarrassment of actually accomplishing the task with those pliers, but having rounded off the bolt head to uselessness in the process, and having skinned his knuckles as the price, all the time aware that the correct tool was within reach if he would only get up and walk over to it.

My grandfather’s advice was to always use the right tool for the job. Using his Rigid pipe wrench made me smile yesterday. Using his pipe cutter brought tears.

 

[Twelvefret]

It's not morally wrong or operationally wrong to do the job with several tools but I like the elegance if you will of one straight razor.

One at a time. One per shave. Not just one in my den.

Dan, I have great understanding of your wife's position having heard it all from mine. Yet, sometimes, my wife wants to buy me shaving gear. I am very supportive of her hobby, quilting, which is very expensive in terms of time and money. Maybe that helps. Maybe not.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Try the elegance of one stone and no paste.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Try the elegance of one stone and no paste.

I have done that. It's only elegant as a solution if it is a solution.