Dulling to sharpen?

[Steve56]

Love that Seraphim!

I believe the idea is that using synthetics, film, CrOx and other unnatural things on your razor can lead to convexed bevels, foil/wire edges and other unstable extensions. Dulling on glass or joining an edge is intended to remove the artifacts of unnatural honing and ensure that when you have a set bevel, it's on sound metal.

Cheers, Steve

lol.

 

[Seraphim]

Well, Craig, since you only hone the same thing over and over perhaps it's hard to see why some people like doing it. No free thought allowed. You must hone by prescription only and only on film and....

Hold on a second there, Brooksie, my back bacon nibbling friend!

Where in this thread have I said anything about using film?

The odd thing about the question posed by the OP is that it has nothing to do with ANY sort of of abrasive/honing method, but rather asks if it is recommended to first dull the blade before proceeding to hone it.

Now then: I don't think I have categorically stated that I think that was a bad idea. But rather, I have tried to encourage the Socratical approach here- to question why someone would feel the need to do that.

Hey, I'm open minded. If a guy wants to rub his perfectly good razor on the edge of an empty Molson bottle, for example. Hey, that's up to them...

If they prefer to wear their wife's lacy undergarments while honing...Sure, I'm not here to judge...I know the nights are long up in the Northern latitudes in the Fall/Winter. No need to name names, it's a lifestyle choice, and what goes on in the privacy of a man's honing den is up to him...

 

[David]

Love that Seraphim!

I believe the idea is that using synthetics, film, CrOx and other unnatural things on your razor can lead to convexed bevels, foil/wire edges and other unstable extensions. Dulling on glass or joining an edge is intended to remove the artifacts of unnatural honing and ensure that when you have a set bevel, it's on sound metal.

Cheers, Steve

lol.

Mastro Livi dulls his edge on the stone in that one insane honing video...I assume he does it to remove the wire edge. Still one of my favorite honing videos. Lol

 

[Steve56]

I saw saw that and identified the hone by searching Amazon, it's the 3k side of a combo stone, Suehiro I believe, and he used the corner of it! Murray Carter also used the edge/corner of a picnic table in one of his videos.

The practice is widespread regardless of merit.

Cheers, Steve

Mastro Livi dulls his edge on the stone in that one insane honing video...I assume he does it to remove the wire edge. Still one of my favorite honing videos. Lol

 

[David]

True, it is widespread. Like I said earlier I have an old coti that has marks on all four corners from dulling.
I've wondered what stone he started with in that video. I assumed it was a 1k.

 

[Brooksie967]

Hold on a second there, Brooksie, my back bacon nibbling friend!

Where in this thread have I said anything about using film?

The odd thing about the question posed by the OP is that it has nothing to do with ANY sort of of abrasive/honing method, but rather asks if it is recommended to first dull the blade before proceeding to hone it.

Now then: I don't think I have categorically stated that I think that was a bad idea. But rather, I have tried to encourage the Socratical approach here- to question why someone would feel the need to do that.

Hey, I'm open minded. If a guy wants to rub his perfectly good razor on the edge of an empty Molson bottle, for example. Hey, that's up to them...

If they prefer to wear their wife's lacy undergarments while honing...Sure, I'm not here to judge...I know the nights are long up in the Northern latitudes in the Fall/Winter. No need to name names, it's a lifestyle choice, and what goes on in the privacy of a man's honing den is up to him...

Is this your pragmatic communication disorder flaring up again? Perhaps your Dr. should stop prescribing this to you:


I dull on glass, when I feel the need, sometimes I just do it but it's rare. But, I don't see anything detrimental by doing so. I do see how it could be beneficial for a number of reasons already mentioned.

 

[Steve56]

David,

What do those marks look like? I've seen grooves on hone edges that were from sharpening ... Drumroll ... Fishhooks.

Cheers, Steve

 

[Seraphim]

Is this your pragmatic communication disorder flaring up again? Perhaps your Dr. should stop prescribing this to you:
View attachment 512654

I dull on glass, when I feel the need, sometimes I just do it but it's rare. But, I don't see anything detrimental by doing so. I do see how it could be beneficial for a number of reasons already mentioned.

OK, that's very good. You've admitted to dulling on glass.

Care to make any comments about what you wear while honing?

 

[Brooksie967]

OK, that's very good. You've admitted to dulling on glass.

Care to make any comments about what you wear while honing?

I didn't want this to get out ever but... when you occasionally post pics of your irritated skin after shaving, I file them away. I actually printed your face onto a plain white t-shirt and onto the rear end of some whitey-tighties and wear that when I hone

 

[David]

David,

What do those marks look like? I've seen grooves on hone edges that were from sharpening ... Drumroll ... Fishhooks.

Cheers, Steve

it was hard to get a decent pic with the iPhone but I think you can get an idea. This stone was badly dished when I got it and the marks on the corners were much more profound before lapping.

 

[Avenolpey]

What makes this digression disappointing is that we have a new honer trying to make sense of the science and mythology of our crazy obsession. There is sound science to the custom of dulling the edge before resetting a bevel. If on the other hand the OP had said he was doing a refresh and knew the bevel was good, then no need to dull the edge.

 

[Steve56]

David,

Those look like fishhook grooves to me. You'd never make grooves that large with 10,000 razors dulled every time you shaved.

Cheers, Steve

 

[Seraphim]

I didn't want this to get out ever but... when you occasionally post pics of your irritated skin after shaving, I file them away. I actually printed your face onto a plain white t-shirt and onto the rear end of some whitey-tighties and wear that when I hone

Tell the truth- your wife simply can't resist you when you wear that outfit, can she?

That is dead sexy, Bro. Women can't resist an ironed on image of the SeraMeister!
Go get 'er!

 

[David]

Could be, I just assumed it was from razors. I'm glad I don't have to sharpen fishhooks. Lol

 

[buca3152]

Imo, factory gd doesnt need it, I always dull on glass if i use a diamond plate and if I am on a chippy razor. Iwasaki spoke of it as well. Seems we are split on this one as we are on many topics. Its not necessary to do though. You can avoid it, although i like to reestablish an edge at certain parts of the progression if I feel like something is amiss. As a learning tool its terrific imo.

 

[Doc226]

Dulling an existing edge is not really needed all the time but it can be very, very helpful if you want to make sure the new bevel and resulting edge are really your creation.

Example I have seen some razors sent in to me that the owner was trying to touch up with a high grit stone, he dropped down to a mid grit stone and worked up the progression. When he finished and shaved he said the edge was worse than when he started the honing.

Turns out the razor had been honed on tape and he was polising the mid portion of the bevel and not the edge of it. If he had glassed the edge he would have noticed that the mid grit stone did nothing to the bevel itself.

The original edge passed all the "bevel tests" he tried since it was shaving just not well.

 

[Steve56]

I understand your comment about thread derailment, but it's all in fun. This is kind of the Mos Eisley spaceport of honing.

However, if there is any real science behind edge dulling, I'd like to see it. I mean measurements or images that differences can be seen. Most everything I've read is opinion, even Iwasaki's treatise regarding joining an edge.

This post of course, excludes Alfredo's scenario that the bevel is wonky.

Cheers, Steve

What makes this digression disappointing is that we have a new honer trying to make sense of the science and mythology of our crazy obsession. There is sound science to the custom of dulling the edge before resetting a bevel. If on the other hand the OP had said he was doing a refresh and knew the bevel was good, then no need to dull the edge.

 

[professorchaos]

Nah. Don't dull it. Just hone until it passes the TNT test.

 

[Doc226]

Nah. Don't dull it. Just hone until it passes the TNT test.

True, but see my example above. The edge passed the TNT and hair test but it had been honed with tape, the owner was trying to touch it up without.

 

[David]

A sharpie would do the same thing though, wouldn't it Doc?