Discussion of wood paranoia for cutting boards

[huntingdan]

I notice that it is treated with a walnut oil? Any one ever use a board treated with any type of nut oil? Does it cause a problem to people that could possibly have a "peanut" or nut allergies as a whole?

 

[stobes21]

I notice that it is treated with a walnut oil? Any one ever use a board treated with any type of nut oil? Does it cause a problem to people that could possibly have a "peanut" or nut allergies as a whole?

It certainly could cause an issue. Be aware also that some of the board is made of black walnut wood which naturally contains some oils. So even if you had it finished with a non nut oil like mineral oil it could still potentially cause problems for someone with severe allergies. It isn't a problem for furniture or the like but for something that will have fresh cut wood directly exposed to food it might

 

[luvmysuper]

It certainly could cause an issue. Be aware also that some of the board is made of black walnut wood which naturally contains some oils. So even if you had it finished with a non nut oil like mineral oil it could still potentially cause problems for someone with severe allergies. It isn't a problem for furniture or the like but for something that will have fresh cut wood directly exposed to food it might

Virtually any tree that could be said to produce a "nut" as its seed, could therefore have wood that might share characteristics with the seed.
In the culinary sense, many "nuts" are not really tree nuts at all such as pistachios (a shrub or bushlike plant). Peanuts are also not nuts. They are legumes, a bean.

Point of fact is that the Oak tree produces a nut as well; the Acorn. So if you're concerned about the wood from the Walnut tree, you'd probably be justified in worrying about the Oak as well.

I'd think that if someone had an allergy severe enough to cause concern over eating food prepared on an Oak Cutting Board, that they'd probably know that by the time they were of an age to be able to sign on to B&B.

Also - for the record; Someone with a peanut allergy has a different type of allergy from those who have a tree nut allergy. Though people who are allergic to one may be allergic to the other, it isn't always the case.
People who have a genuine tree nut allergy are recommended to avoid all tree nuts. Peanuts are not a tree nut as stated earlier.

 

[Argonaut]

Virtually any tree that could be said to produce a "nut" as its seed, could therefore have wood that might share characteristics with the seed.
In the culinary sense, many "nuts" are not really tree nuts at all such as pistachios (a shrub or bushlike plant). Peanuts are also not nuts. They are legumes, a bean.

Point of fact is that the Oak tree produces a nut as well; the Acorn. So if you're concerned about the wood from the Walnut tree, you'd probably be justified in worrying about the Oak as well.

I'd think that if someone had an allergy severe enough to cause concern over eating food prepared on an Oak Cutting Board, that they'd probably know that by the time they were of an age to be able to sign on to B&B.

Also - for the record; Someone with a peanut allergy has a different type of allergy from those who have a tree nut allergy. Though people who are allergic to one may be allergic to the other, it isn't always the case.
People who have a genuine tree nut allergy are recommended to avoid all tree nuts. Peanuts are not a tree nut as stated earlier.

You're awfully familiar with your nuts.

 

[stobes21]

Virtually any tree that could be said to produce a "nut" as its seed, could therefore have wood that might share characteristics with the seed.
In the culinary sense, many "nuts" are not really tree nuts at all such as pistachios (a shrub or bushlike plant). Peanuts are also not nuts. They are legumes, a bean.

Point of fact is that the Oak tree produces a nut as well; the Acorn. So if you're concerned about the wood from the Walnut tree, you'd probably be justified in worrying about the Oak as well.

I'd think that if someone had an allergy severe enough to cause concern over eating food prepared on an Oak Cutting Board, that they'd probably know that by the time they were of an age to be able to sign on to B&B.

Also - for the record; Someone with a peanut allergy has a different type of allergy from those who have a tree nut allergy. Though people who are allergic to one may be allergic to the other, it isn't always the case.
People who have a genuine tree nut allergy are recommended to avoid all tree nuts. Peanuts are not a tree nut as stated earlier.

Couple of points:

1. Oak cutting boards aren't very common. Maple is and has long been the preferred wood for cutting boards. Red oak is actually very porous and would make for a pretty bad cutting board. I certainly hope that the maker is using white oak which is much harder and less porous.

2. I'm certainly no expert on allergy issues. And you are probably right that the natural oils in tree nut woods won't cause problems for people with tree nut allergies. But given that some googling didn't turn up any studies or anything either way I wouldn't want to risk it without checking with a Dr. first.

3. I'll note also that the claim that the boards are made entirely from FDA approved materials isn't true.

"4-101.17 Wood, Use Limitation.

• 
  [*=left](A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B), (C), and (D) of this section, wood and wood wicker may not be used as afood-contact surface.
  [*=left](B) Hard maple or an equivalently hard, close-grained wood may be used for:
  1. 
     [*=left](1) Cutting boards; cutting blocks; bakers' tables; and utensils such as rolling pins, doughnut dowels, salad bowls, and chopsticks; and
     [*=left](2) Wooden paddles used in confectionery operations for pressure scraping kettles when manually preparing confections at a temperature of 110°C (230°F) or above.
  
  [*=left](C) Whole, uncut, raw fruits and vegetables, and nuts in the shell may be kept in the wood shipping containers in which they were received, until the fruits, vegetables, or nuts are used.
  [*=left](D) If the nature of the food requires removal of rinds, peels, husks, or shells before consumption, the whole, uncut, raw food may be kept in:
  1. 
     [*=left](1) Untreated wood containers; or
     [*=left](2) Treated wood containers if the containers are treated with a preservative that meets the requirements specified in 21 CFR 178.3800 Preservatives for wood."

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/FoodCode2009/ucm188064.htm

Oak and walnut are not equivalently hard as hard maple. In fact, they are quite a bit softer. Walnut in particular only rates about 2/3s as hard as maple. As a practical matter I don't think it would make much difference as long as the maker is using white rather than red oak. But I don't think we should promote these boards as made with FDA approved materials when that clearly isn't the case.

4. I'm not trying to rain on the group buy here. The boards are beautiful and I'm sure if well taken care of will last a lifetime. Jim and anyone else involved in putting this together certainly deserve our thanks. Like previous group buys this appears to be a great deal on a really nice item.

 

[Argonaut]

Couple of points:

1. Oak cutting boards aren't very common. Maple is and has long been the preferred wood for cutting boards. Red oak is actually very porous and would make for a pretty bad cutting board. I certainly hope that the maker is using white oak which is much harder and less porous.

2. I'm certainly no expert on allergy issues. And you are probably right that the natural oils in tree nut woods won't cause problems for people with tree nut allergies. But given that some googling didn't turn up any studies or anything either way I wouldn't want to risk it without checking with a Dr. first.

3. I'll note also that the claim that the boards are made entirely from FDA approved materials isn't true.

"4-101.17 Wood, Use Limitation.

• 
  [*=left](A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B), (C), and (D) of this section, wood and wood wicker may not be used as afood-contact surface.
  [*=left](B) Hard maple or an equivalently hard, close-grained wood may be used for:
  1. 
     [*=left](1) Cutting boards; cutting blocks; bakers' tables; and utensils such as rolling pins, doughnut dowels, salad bowls, and chopsticks; and
     [*=left](2) Wooden paddles used in confectionery operations for pressure scraping kettles when manually preparing confections at a temperature of 110°C (230°F) or above.
  
  [*=left](C) Whole, uncut, raw fruits and vegetables, and nuts in the shell may be kept in the wood shipping containers in which they were received, until the fruits, vegetables, or nuts are used.
  [*=left](D) If the nature of the food requires removal of rinds, peels, husks, or shells before consumption, the whole, uncut, raw food may be kept in:
  1. 
     [*=left](1) Untreated wood containers; or
     [*=left](2) Treated wood containers if the containers are treated with a preservative that meets the requirements specified in 21 CFR 178.3800 Preservatives for wood."

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/FoodCode2009/ucm188064.htm

Oak and walnut are not equivalently hard as hard maple. In fact, they are quite a bit softer. Walnut in particular only rates about 2/3s as hard as maple. As a practical matter I don't think it would make much difference as long as the maker is using white rather than red oak. But I don't think we should promote these boards as made with FDA approved materials when that clearly isn't the case.

4. I'm not trying to rain on the group buy here. The boards are beautiful and I'm sure if well taken care of will last a lifetime. Jim and anyone else involved in putting this together certainly deserve our thanks. Like previous group buys this appears to be a great deal on a really nice item.

Deleted snarky post.

 

[honed]

What a lovely piece of wood art!
Seems like excellent craftmanship.

I'm a bt curious though, to say the least, as for the choiceof oak.

Since I was I kid I have always heard & been taught NOT to use oak in any type of application that you are gonna cut food on or cut anything on for that matter.
And that is due tio the large pores of oak. I know some types of oak are bette rthen others, but they all share this thing with large, open pores.

Maybe a good idea to get some clarification from the maker, since judging by the look he is obviously skilled & should be able to tell why he used oak & finds it suiting.

 

[Jim]

From the maker-

"I can understand the concern that some of you have had with using oak, and it is perfectly correct that if simply wiped with mineral oil it would be too porous for use. But treated properly it makes an attractive and affordable butcher-block that is very durable yet kind to the knifes edge. Boiled walnut oil is my finish of choice on blocks for a couple of reasons. First it is a slow oil finish that enhances the grain that protects and penetrates deeply into the fibers of the wood. It is a curing oil, unlike mineral oil, so it is resistant to washing out. I also like that it is a renewable agricultural product but function trumps all. The initial flood coat of oil saturates the block and the daily burnishing with burlap removes any excess as it rises through the pores as it cures and helps the pores fill as the finish cures in the wood. I feel this alone is insufficient to give the oak block what it needs to be effectively prepared for kitchen use. The next step is to make a stiff version of my board butter from beeswax and boiled walnut oil. It is quite stiff and is massaged over every inch of the board. The heat from my hands softens the wax mixture forcing it deep into the pores, after which it is given time to set. This process is repeated three times until any added mixture remains on the surface indicating that the pores have been well sealed. The board is then left to go through a second cure. The wax mixture, once cured will be very resistant to being removed from the pores even with regular use and cleaning. After the second cure each board gets drizzled with filtered water to insure that water beads and remains beaded on the surface for a half hour and after wiping dry it is polished. Regular oiling as necessary will maintain the efficacy of the block.

These boards are for kitchen knives and are especially suitable for high performance Japanese styled knives. If you need a super hard rock maple block for using a number 0 cleaver on, then these boards may may not be your best choice.

 

[luvmysuper]

There's one in every crowd isn't there?

Oak is a very common cutting board material, but agreed that maple is the most common.

Do a little google fu for "oak cutting board" or "walnut cutting board". There are literally hundreds and hundreds of sources available.
Either there are vast numbers of commercial entities selling illegal materials here in the U.S. or the FDA defines equivalently hard differently.

On any wood toxicity chart you care to look at, maple is listed as more irritating and toxic than either oak or black walnut.

Ultimately the bottom line is;

If you have any concern whatsoever about an allergic reaction, or the suitability of the materials for use in home food preparation (as opposed to commercial food prep), I encourage you NOT to participate in this group buy.

Can we leave it at that?

 

[honed]

There's one in every crowd isn't there?

Yes it is, especially when something at this price-point are being sold to members & it has two really uncommon things going, one is the choice of oak, the other the choice of a vegetable oil finish.

Oak is a very common cutting board material, but agreed that maple is the most common.

Do a little google fu for "oak cutting board" or "walnut cutting board". There are literally hundreds and hundreds of sources available.
Either there are vast numbers of commercial entities selling illegal materials here in the U.S. or the FDA defines equivalently hard differently.

On any wood toxicity chart you care to look at, maple is listed as more irritating and toxic than either oak or black walnut.

Same google gives you the reason to my concern.... And why people like The Boardsmith advices strongly against it.


Ultimately the bottom line is;

If you have any concern whatsoever about an allergic reaction, or the suitability of the materials for use in home food preparation (as opposed to commercial food prep), I encourage you NOT to participate in this group buy.

Can we leave it at that?

Yes we can

...

 

[luvmysuper]

Can we leave it at that?

Apparently not.

 

[luvmysuper]

Feel free to discuss at your leisure.

 

[macleod319]

Alright, a little bit of constructive inquiry - if the manufacturer is sealing the board with a (according to honed) "vegetable oil" finish, and the manufacturer's statement posted by Jim above states if "simply wiped with mineral oil it would be too porous for use", then I have a couple questions:

1) What is to be used for subsequent sealing?
2) Why are people so quick to jump on the negative?

And, since I've had a rough night at work, I will add - I hate whiners.

Flame on.

 

[macleod319]

You know what, read the last post as you will, but read this one as it stands.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Each and every person reading this is smart enough to walk, talk, breathe, eat, ****, and decide for themselves what they want and don't want. If you want a beautiful cutting board, sweet. If you want a fully functional cutting board, great. If you want something to ***** about, go somewhere else. YMMV and TEHO and DILLIGAF all apply here.

Jeremey.

 

[BigBull]

I think they look amazing and would love to grab one! Hope I can. Thanks to everyone for their efforts in making them available! I hope I can snatch one up...

 

[huntingdan]

Point of fact is that the Oak tree produces a nut as well; the Acorn. So if you're concerned about the wood from the Walnut tree, you'd probably be justified in worrying about the Oak as well.

I'd think that if someone had an allergy severe enough to cause concern over eating food prepared on an Oak Cutting Board, that they'd probably know that by the time they were of an age to be able to sign on to B&B.

Yes I understand that, but it is not for me. It runs in my fiances family, so I have not looked much in to this before I registered for my B&B account. It's fine I will probably still order one because of how it looks, and I've never had a nice cutting board before, still young. It was a question I had posed in the sale thread, did not even know I had started a thread about it .

 

[rearviewmirror]

I am DEATHLY allergic to pine nuts, but grew up surrounded by pine trees. And my mom used to clean with pine-sol.

 

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

I notice that it is treated with a walnut oil? Any one ever use a board treated with any type of nut oil? Does it cause a problem to people that could possibly have a "peanut" or nut allergies as a whole?

Daniel:
Are we talking about 'home' or 'industry' use?

For industry, the establishment HACCP (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points) program, ServSafe (the National Restaurant Association's food safety certification), and most (if not all), state & local sanatition guidelines recommend plastic cutting boards (color-coded for different food groups).

In my career, knowledge and opinion, plastic cutting board are superior to wood because the grooves cut into a wooden board by the knife harbored bacteria that would infect the next food that was cut. Plastic cutting boards, being harder than wood, developed fewer grooves, and were thus less likely to pass along harmful microbes.

So with that said, the Mrs. and I use plastic boards in our house.

"Better a good [cutting board] than a over priced knife". French Proverb

 

[Kazeryu]

In my career, knownledge and opinion, plastic cutting board are superior to wood because the grooves cut into a wooden board by the knife harbored bacteria that would infect the next food that was cut.

I have heard many people claim (don't know if true or not) that wooden boards kill the bacteria by dessicating them (all moisture gets drawn away by the wood fibers), something which plastic boards are incapable of.

Plastic cutting boards, being harder than wood, ...

All generalizations are false. (including this one)

...developed fewer grooves, and were thus less likely to pass along harmful microbes.

Putting a groove in end-grain is very difficult unless you're deliberately setting out to do it. As far as I'm aware plastic does not have this feature no matter which way you turn it.



Personally, I think the whole "which is more hygenic" point is moot - if you're incapable of washing a cutting board properly, you get what you deserve. This applies equally to people trying to use a cutting board that looks like the surface of the Moon.

 

[Doc4]

I think the bottom line is that anyone with a severe nut allergy ... for whom a stray cashew in a stir-fry could be fatal ... will already have done here what they usually do to ensure survival: err on the side of caution and give it a miss. (99% of the time the erring on the side of caution is probably excessive and unnecessary, and this is probably one of those times, but the other 1% would have got them by now, so the big picture says this is a good strategy.)

The good folks who find themselves in this difficult situation know how to face life 24/7/365 to ensure that they stay alive, and don't need internet warriors summarising the jist of something they remember reading once to be able to do that.

In my career, knownledge and opinion,

You may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but at least you have knownledge of knife boards ... and spelling.