Hone Gamble with me

[LJS]

Naturals vary but 200x to 2-4k-ish relevance is sort of a huge jump.

I’ve had a few myself and found them to be in the same range, 2-4K.

Agree with you both. I glanced back again but still must have missed where it was called a 200. That sounds about as coarse as a construction brick

I’m not 100% what it is. But threw out something as a maybe - what is your guess? Lots of experience around here and always good to learn from others.

I have at least one Dalmore that is pretty looking but glazes fast and still leaves nasty scratch pattern despite its lack of cutting ability. The others I’d say 2-3 maybe 4 but that is pushing it compared to standard synthetic stones.

If we say for the sake of comparison, the washita finish is about as sharp as a 4-5k... This would be more like 1k-2.5k... point is it's a BIG step down from washita finish....

 

[SliceOfLife]

I think Gamma is saying 200x because I related it to Carbo's and Crysto's.
Or else I made a typo somewhere.

edit: This is what Gamma refers to:

"But it pulls steel like it's 200-600 grit"

It's definitely finer in result than 200. But I could see it being as low as 1000 or thereabouts.

But it rips swarf/steel off a knife like a much much coarser oilstone. It pulls steel about as fast as anything I own.


I don't really look at scratch patterns, so I'm relating speed to how fast it pulls steel and refinement to how well the knife cuts after a quick dishrag strop coming off the stone.

Speed... closest thing are <320 grit synth oilstones.
Refinement... I'd have to direct compare... but I suspect it's a little above my 1200 DMT. Definitely below a Washita. Don't have a lot in between those two stones to compare against though.

Generally with nats if I can't ID it as a washita or Tam and if it's not a razor finisher... it goes in my toss box. So I don't have a lot of experience trying to nail down just what something is in this range, because I rarely bother.

This one probably would have had the same fate if I hadn't started this thread. Thread got me to play around with it more than I'd have bothered in normal circumstances.

 

[Gamma]

IME experience, Dalmore Blue stones are mild cutters.
I don't think I'd relate any Washita to a 1-2k synth and it is such an entirely different type of natural that it's presence here clouds the view I think.
I found Dalmore Blue stones to be finer than most Washita though. Maybe all of them. It's not something I cared enough about to iron out. Stuff like this gets sniffed for a second or two then passed over as a novelty.

DBs have been, for me, fairly slow, mild, not aggressive. Not taking material off like a low grit synth.
Lots of variables here. Pressure, steel type, surface condition, etc.
I got rid of my Dalmores because they're 'meh' to me. Pretty yes, but not something I ever really wanted to use. The Dalmore Yellow was just stupidly useless.

To be honest, I hate giving naturals grit assignments cuz it never really lines up well and it's just a bad practice in general.
I can use a Dalmore to polish a 1k finish. But it's not like a synth polish; the edge might be there but the overall refinement won't be. With some synths, like almost every Nani SS, they might produce some sort of mirror effect on bevels - The DB not like that at all. So, opinions are relative.
I am certain my 4k IE-0400 would wipe the Dalmore work pattern easily.

Both the Tam/Ayr are typically markedly finer than a DB, and I don't find their edges worth writing home about to be honest.
In my mind's eye - the jump from Dalmore to Tam is what I'd call a nominal/typical one. Maybe 1.5 rungs on the ladder.
I view Tams as sub 8k so figure out my perspective from that.
A lot depends on which synths one compares to, and their experience with those synth.
If the task changes, maybe the read on the stone changes. I'm speaking specifically about razor honing.

There is so much regurgitated noise about these stones on the internet that it's hard to get a clear picture by reading. It seems like every single new jack hone Poobah has produced their own version of reworked copy/pasted content borrowed (stolen) from the usual previous contenders. It's like a perverse game of Telephone with hone stories. Each one whispers in the next one's ear and by the time the story gets to the end of the line nothing makes sense.
End Rant.

A lotta stone came from that area in Scotland. Not all of that stone came from the TOS hone works. Some of the hones from the hone works came from nearby locations. If they were anything like Salm's was, if they were short on materials, you can bet that they'd slap a Dalmore, TOS, or Dalmore label on a dead fish and call it a Salmon Hone.

It's possible that there are some very wild variatons on the general themes that we know of but were never boxed, labeled, retailed, etc. Over the years a lot of people have had stones that were thought to be Dalmores but weren't.
Without original boxes and labels we can't know.
And a few vendors have made their own labels and boxes for these hones so it's possible that some reference samples out there are fraudulent.
I have a combo stone on my bench. One side is def black WOA. The other side confuses me. Has Dalmore pattern tendencies but doesn't really behave like a Dalmore, more like a darker type of TOS. But was sold as a TOS/WOA combo.
I've decided it's name doesn't matter, I just sharpen stuff with it.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I'd agree with your positioning on Tam for the most part. Anywhere from 4-7k (JIS) depending on the stone. Haven't had one that quite reached 8k JIS, but I have had some that shaved a little better than a 6k.

Again, with pretty limited usage of low grit nats (A QC and Hindo here and there)... Hard to compare this to other low grit nats. It's Miles faster than Hindo and substantially faster than QC. I'll record how fast it pulls swarf this weekend if I have time and can get the camera set up right.

Finish... eh... I'd say it's a little above a well done Fine India... Definitely feels finer than a QC finish to me... Can't recall using a Hindo with a knife, but those vary wildly (with razors), and I'd expect some are around this finish level but some are significantly finer.

I had a stone I thought was a dalmore yellow years ago... swirled like a dalmore... but it was BOLD yellow/orange... which I seem to remember most Dalmore yellows being much more washed out and muted color wise... This thing looked like someone took a yellow marker to it. I estimated it at 1-2.5k and very fast... so similar in performance to this stone, but I remember that stone feeling gritty/sandy... this stone isn't gritty... just fast.. also they looked nothing alike.

 

[eKretz]

I would agree with Gamma in this case. If it's pulling steel off quickly, it's not likely a Dalmore Blue. I've got several examples of those and they are universally slower and cut finer than the described range of this stone. DB has a very smooth feel, nice feedback when honing.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Yeah, not sure what it is. Looks like the Dalmore Blue (without patterning) that was posted. Seems fast and around the grit of a Fine or VF tool hone, but nothing I'd use for razors. Haven't touched it since my last post here. Might try it with a plane blade or something to grind out a chip at some point and see if it's really as fast as the swarf indicates.

 

[SliceOfLife]

No real update on use. As mentioned, I'll probably grab it here and there with knives for a change of pace. Might try it out next time a knife is very far gone... but basically, doubt it's gonna replace a Washita for me. Maybe faster, but I don't like the drop in finish.


Wanted to add some pictures after a few weeks sitting. Face is still about the same, maybe reverting a bit to the chocolatey color, back, the SG soak seems to have settled out and left some interesting (maybe indentifiable) characteristics.