I have long wondered the reasoning between the different colored Escher stones and the prices. I saw an old add on this forum for Escher's back in the early 1900's showing that the Y/G was the highest priced and the Dark Blue was the lowest. First of all, I think the performance is the same throughout the colors. What I think is different, is the hardness. My theory is what determined the pricing was the ease of extracting the Thuringian from the Earth. I think that the Y/G was deepest in the Earth, also explaining it being the softest and highest priced, and Dark Blue being closest to the surface making it the hardest and lowest priced. What made me think of that is I was looking at my Y/G Escher and saw that the bottom half was a little darker than the top half. That would explain why my Y/G doesn't look quite as Y/G as some others I have seen online, but mine is a Y/G nonetheless. So what I think is my Y/G is closer to the meeting of Light Green than other Y/G's that are farther away of in it's own color. Below is a visual I made. This is just a theory I have and could very well be wrong. I look forward to see what you guys think.
Did I Crack The Escher Color Code?
- Thread starter raccoonandbrush
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Actually blue and yellow green are right next to each other. There are stone blue one side and yellow/green on the other similar to a combination coticule. Blue was least expensive because it is the slowest stone and yellow green the most expensive because while coarser it is also the fastest stone and time is money to a barber refreshing his edge. That is also why the Barbers delights were a yellow green stone.
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Since Yellow Green is the quicker cutter, doesn't that mean that the Dark Blue leaves a finer edge? Or am I wrong.
It can yes and takes a good bit longer to get that little bit of difference too. Most people wouldn't notice the difference but an edge snob.
Being natural stones there will always be varience and there is no hard and fast rule that applies to all. Like any other natural.
Being natural stones there will always be varience and there is no hard and fast rule that applies to all. Like any other natural.
Scott is right on the money (as usual)
My only 2 cents to add is that not everyone necessarily wants as fine as an edge as possible. I suspect even with a Y/G if you were to spend a lot of time on water you could end up with an edge that was TOO sharp
My only 2 cents to add is that not everyone necessarily wants as fine as an edge as possible. I suspect even with a Y/G if you were to spend a lot of time on water you could end up with an edge that was TOO sharp
I can get edges that are too sharp for me given enough time on water only. Too sharp means ingrowns that I only get when using a DE and shaving too close.
I imagine its sharp enough that it penetrates the skin cuts the follicle below the skin. Being dull enough to NOT go through skin but cut through hair, talk about a narrow window
I've seen the Extra Fine and Barber's Delight Eschers. Has anyone seen other "categories" of Eschers for lack of a better term?
I've not found a "too sharp" edge possible on a thuri, which is part of why I like them. On jnats I can get an edge that may qualify for others as "too sharp". I consider this edge just more demanding of technique during the shave. With a thuri I can whiz through my shave almost as carelessly as with a coti edge. With a tuned in edge off my karasu, if I slip my angle even a degree or two, shave will go fine, then after the rinse my face will start seeping blood since I shaved off a few layers of skin anywhere that my face was not perfectly flat for the length of the blade... fortunately painlessly, but still it's a hassle. The solution is just to manage my angle better and I'll get as close a shave as humanly possible, but with thuri's that's unnecessary and the shave is very nearly as close.
Pricing was most likely based on rarity. Buy enough eschers and you'll find this pretty easily. For every Y/G there are 3-5 blues and 2+ green or grey/green. I would guess that the color differences don't have anything to do with depth. Instead I suspect it had to do with the minerals that happened to be present where that particular rock was seated in the earth... more likely related to how water moved about underground than the depth they were found at.
Pricing was most likely based on rarity. Buy enough eschers and you'll find this pretty easily. For every Y/G there are 3-5 blues and 2+ green or grey/green. I would guess that the color differences don't have anything to do with depth. Instead I suspect it had to do with the minerals that happened to be present where that particular rock was seated in the earth... more likely related to how water moved about underground than the depth they were found at.
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Very interesting.
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Neither have I. I have had some experience with J-Nats and I know what you mean. It's the same thing with the Naniwa SS's. Escher and Coticule edges are always super smooth, yet sharp.
Personally - I attribute an aggressive edge to it being honed to that state, and not the stone it's honed on. While most synthetics seem to be incapable of delivering anything other than a harsher edge, I see that being another issue.
Grabby edges that are prone to shearing off skin cells too easily because there too reliant upon blade angle - to me that's the result of how it was honed. There's a delicate balance of factors that result in what is the apex of the burr and taking things a bit too far seem to take the edge to a tedious condition. I spend a lot of time toggling back and forth across that line; mostly in an attempt to see how far I can push the edge before its qualities tip to far past my comfort zone.
I like hyper-keen edges when they're just there, but far into the zone.
A normal Jnat edge though, for me, is uber smooth and comfortable, and equally 'safe' as any Escher or 'Coti edge Ive experienced.
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Grabby edges that are prone to shearing off skin cells too easily because there too reliant upon blade angle - to me that's the result of how it was honed. There's a delicate balance of factors that result in what is the apex of the burr and taking things a bit too far seem to take the edge to a tedious condition. I spend a lot of time toggling back and forth across that line; mostly in an attempt to see how far I can push the edge before its qualities tip to far past my comfort zone.
I like hyper-keen edges when they're just there, but far into the zone.
A normal Jnat edge though, for me, is uber smooth and comfortable, and equally 'safe' as any Escher or 'Coti edge Ive experienced.
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I should say that I can definitely get a smooth shaving edge off my jnat, but I know it's not as sharp as it could be if I do that. It's basically done by just stopping before I've "finished" on the stone in my eyes. The reason I don't is because if I wanted that level of finish, I'd just use one of my thuri's.
As for synth edges... I find that they are often far less harsh than people expect from them if given a nice long initial stropping. I usually spend twice the time on linen coming off a synth stone versus coming off a natural one. They still won't give you the kind of edge you can be reckless with like a coticule can, but their harshness is largely toned down. It's entirely speculative, but I suspect that since their cutting particles are likely more uniform, more evenly distributed, and more densely packed that the edge they leave is actually more durable and intact (less metal fatigue along the edge essentially), making it much harder to strop into a proper aligned edge, thus requiring more effort on the initial stropping.
As for synth edges... I find that they are often far less harsh than people expect from them if given a nice long initial stropping. I usually spend twice the time on linen coming off a synth stone versus coming off a natural one. They still won't give you the kind of edge you can be reckless with like a coticule can, but their harshness is largely toned down. It's entirely speculative, but I suspect that since their cutting particles are likely more uniform, more evenly distributed, and more densely packed that the edge they leave is actually more durable and intact (less metal fatigue along the edge essentially), making it much harder to strop into a proper aligned edge, thus requiring more effort on the initial stropping.
I think stropping is overlooked occasionally in the keen/smooth debate. I always strop 3-4x more after a honing then between shaves, often up to 150 strokes and I think that has a lot more to do with smoothness than the stone. But I'm sure some will disagree.
I think you are right on the mark. I make sure to give an edge plenty of time on linen after honing. I find it makes a huge difference
What type of linen?
I personally love the Kanayama linen (canvas), but I imagine they all work pretty similarly
I've done a good amount of stropping after 12k SS and 10k C finishes - the stropping does help, as it does with any edge.
Still - they were not 'smooth' - but more like 'less harsh'. The 10k C did better in these tests, but the 12k SS left a more mirrored finish.
I always needed to smooth those edges out with a paste or go to a natural hone. Usually a Thuri then an Arkansas.
That's just me though - I'm sure that somewhere there's someone that loves the shave off a 12k SS or whatever. I'm equally sure that there are people that would not like the edge on the razor I shaved with today. Such is life... Mileage always varies - mostly due to how the car is driven.
The shave I had today was brilliant - stupid sharp and smooth as all hell. No AS sting and no weepers. The edge was easy to work with and it cut through the miserable hairs under my nose easily. That zone is the test above all tests. If I can get BBS there with 1 ATG pass then the edge is spot on where I want it. Well - so long as it hasn't done any damage elsewhere. I've used diamond paste down to 1 um and that edge was off-the-hook, but I had AS burn that was downright painful and weepers everywhere.
Love love love the Kanayama Linen/Canvas - love it to death. It's all I use now. Takes a bit of time to break in but it's worth the effort.
Still - they were not 'smooth' - but more like 'less harsh'. The 10k C did better in these tests, but the 12k SS left a more mirrored finish.
I always needed to smooth those edges out with a paste or go to a natural hone. Usually a Thuri then an Arkansas.
That's just me though - I'm sure that somewhere there's someone that loves the shave off a 12k SS or whatever. I'm equally sure that there are people that would not like the edge on the razor I shaved with today. Such is life... Mileage always varies - mostly due to how the car is driven.
The shave I had today was brilliant - stupid sharp and smooth as all hell. No AS sting and no weepers. The edge was easy to work with and it cut through the miserable hairs under my nose easily. That zone is the test above all tests. If I can get BBS there with 1 ATG pass then the edge is spot on where I want it. Well - so long as it hasn't done any damage elsewhere. I've used diamond paste down to 1 um and that edge was off-the-hook, but I had AS burn that was downright painful and weepers everywhere.
Love love love the Kanayama Linen/Canvas - love it to death. It's all I use now. Takes a bit of time to break in but it's worth the effort.
There is a thread floating around somewhere from a long time ago talking about how to break it in quickly, but if you just use the thing, it will slowly break in. That to me is the best method
