Declining sales at the, "Three T's?"

[dan86]

I've been wanting to try the Cyril Salter soap, but it will have to wait 'til 2021!

I should really try it too. I’ve long been a fan of their creams and have this week finally gotten around to buying their Sublime Citrus cream, which I’d been threatening to do for 3 years at least. It‘s a pity the soap only currently comes in a lavender scented variety though! I don’t mind lavender but after working in a building for 3 years that had a ridiculous number of lavender shrubs growing outside it’s not a smell I particularly gravitate towards!

I do have TOBS lavender cream though but it’s in my second box of shaving paraphernalia, which for those of you familiar with English soccer is my equivalent to The National League (formerly known as the Conference!)

 

[Rudy Vey]

I think the decline of the "big T's" came when they switched from tallow soaps to non-tallow soaps.
At least with Trumper I have some experience, I have one (still about 1/2 puck left) their old style tallow based soap and also had bought some of the newer versions....what a stark difference. Same with Penhaligon's - glad I stocked up on EF.

 

[Tomo]

None of those three have made the cut for me but the fourth ‘T’ Tabac has a permanent place in my collection.

 

[Graydog]

I have really don't like the way that some of the modern artisans put out a new formula every couple of months , after all New and improved is always better right,
I have many of the new modern artisans and really enjoy them
but find that when I want to feel special I go to the old school , Vintage Old Spice and SV does it for me , plus a puck last forever

 

[CJB3]

These days, I use mostly artisan, but I also like traditional soaps. Among the three T’s, I think T&H Ultimate Comfort (a cream), followed by one of their excellent balms, rivals the face feel of any of the top artisans.

This is the exception among the three T’s, however. Traditional soaps that I value highly and likely have a permanent space in my den are Haslinger, Tabac, and Proraso green (not quite to the standard of the others, but I like it, and it is a sentimental favorite). I used Haslinger Schafmilch this morning and was reminded what an excellent soap it is.

There’s some gray here as to what is an artisan as well. Saponificio Varesino and MdC are also among my faves—not sure what category they should fall into.

 

[emwolf]

I would say I'm probably 80% artisan, 20% traditional. I've got so much, I find it hard to justify any purchase. And aftershaves, my den is probably 80% traditional vintage, lots of Avon and vintage Mennen and Clubman in glass.

 

[RayClem]

A lot of the products, but not all, made and sold in the EU have gone vegan. Although BRExit removes UK from the EU, UK products will still be sold in the EU, so EU regulations and preferences will still influence the production.

TOBS, GF Trumper, and T&H have similar formulas based on stearic acid, myristic acid and coconut fatty acid.

DR Harris soap pucks still contain some tallow, but the primary fat is palm oil.

There are some excellent soaps that are made solely with vegan ingredients. Grooming Department proved that with Mohammad's latest version of Nai, but producing such a soap of that caliber without using animal sourced ingredients is expensive.

 

[Leo501]

Variety is the Spice of Life.

Old School: I have Proraso soap & cream (prefer the cream), GFT Spanish Leather cream (awesome performance & scent), Arko stick (first and probably my last), Pre de Provence.

New School: Stirling, Dr. Jon's, Maggard Razors

 

[Earl_Grey]

I refer to Trumper, Trufitt & Hill, and TOBS of course. A year ago I was in conversation with the owner of a large online men's shaving site. It is well known here on the forum. He noted that when he evaluated sales trends over the prior five years that there was a marked decline in him ordering product from the Three T's as I call them. In their place and growing much faster are the existing as well as emerging artisan makers of men's products.

What about your purchasing habits? Do you go with heritage brands like these three as well as MWF, Cella, La Toja, Tabac or do you buy artisan products because they are new and offer a wide variety of scents?

I stay clear of English creams and soaps, as they all contain Triethanolamine which burns my skin. I do believe there is other stuff in there that I don't approve of, but Triethanolamine always comes to mind. And on top of that, they don't really perform as well as cheaper and cleaner options. If you want to go with a traditional European "big name", Proraso is the better alternative.

Overall, after trying a few artisans (read: going down the rabbit hole) I've settled on my hometown soapmakers (Haslinger & Esbjerg), Wickhams Soaps (UK), Saponifico Varesino (Italy), Lainess Savon du Barbier and Martin de Candre (both from France). They technically all are artisans, just of different sizes and date of establishment. But they all have a steady range of products that I can easily get a hold of while performing as good as the latest overhyped US Artisan base They don't go overboard with the scent strenght and most importantly: they all have a clean list of ingredients (which to me is most imporant).

 

[RayClem]

I stay clear of English creams and soaps, as they all contain Triethanolamine which burns my skin. I do believe there is other stuff in there that I don't approve of, but Triethanolamine always comes to mind. And on top of that, they don't really perform as well as cheaper and cleaner options. If you want to go with a traditional European "big name", Proraso is the better alternative.

Overall, after trying a few artisans (read: going down the rabbit hole) I've settled on my hometown soapmakers (Haslinger & Esbjerg), Wickhams Soaps (UK), Saponifico Varesino (Italy), Lainess Savon du Barbier and Martin de Candre (both from France). They technically all are artisans, just of different sizes and date of establishment. But they all have a steady range of products that I can easily get a hold of while performing as good as the latest overhyped US Artisan base They don't go overboard with the scent strenght and most importantly: they all have a clean list of ingredients (which to me is most imporant).

In my mind at least, an artisan is a small batch producer that makes periodic changes to their products with the intent of improving them. That could either be changes to the formulation for performance reasons or changes to the scents.

Although Saponifico Varesino has been in business for 70 years, I consider them to be an artisan since they have introduced several new soap formulations and scents in recent years.

I have a hard time considering Haslinger as an artisan. Yes, they did make a change to their sheep milk formulation recently, but many people seem to think that vintage Haslinger Schafmilch is far superior to modern Haslinger. However, they have come out with some new scents in recent years, so the may quality as artisans in that sense.

TOBS has come out with a new scent recently Royal Forest. Is that sufficient to qualify them as an artisan?

Gillette has recently introduced their new Pure shaving cream? Does that mean we need to include them as an artisan soapmaker as well???

 

[TBoner]

A lot of the products, but not all, made and sold in the EU have gone vegan. Although BRExit removes UK from the EU, UK products will still be sold in the EU, so EU regulations and preferences will still influence the production.

TOBS, GF Trumper, and T&H have similar formulas based on stearic acid, myristic acid and coconut fatty acid.

DR Harris soap pucks still contain some tallow, but the primary fat is palm oil.

There are some excellent soaps that are made solely with vegan ingredients. Grooming Department proved that with Mohammad's latest version of Nai, but producing such a soap of that caliber without using animal sourced ingredients is expensive.

My only quibble with the above is that the current Harris/Salter formulation has tallowate as the first ingredient and contains only a tiny amount of palmate (less than the amount of fragrance)

Sodium tallowate, potassium stearate, sodium stearate, aqua, glycerin, potassium palm kernelate, sodium palm kernelate, sodium cocoate, parfum, coconut acid, petrolatum, etc...and farther down the list a bit of potassium and sodium palmate

 

[Ivo4u2]

It all depends on what you call artisan... some of the former artisans are starting to grow up
In my den it is mixed
I have some ProRaso, tabac, vergulde hand sitting next to a looot more fine, stirling, scheermonnik, meissner, wsp, razormaster
And had razorock, tfs, cella, tobs, speick, Arko, vanyulay, Palmolive, and some....
So probably more artisans lol

 

[RayClem]

My only quibble with the above is that the current Harris/Salter formulation has tallowate as the first ingredient and contains only a tiny amount of palmate (less than the amount of fragrance)

Sodium tallowate, potassium stearate, sodium stearate, aqua, glycerin, potassium palm kernelate, sodium palm kernelate, sodium cocoate, parfum, coconut acid, petrolatum, etc...and farther down the list a bit of potassium and sodium palmate

Thanks for that update. The only DR Harris soap I have is a few years old and Potassium Palmate is the leading ingredient. I was not at all impressed with the performance of that formula. Hopefully, reverting to a tallow based formula has improved performance significantly. I will refrain from commenting on DR Harris in the future unless I have an opportunity to use the new formulation.

 

[Steve56]

C'mon, let's not go pushing the thread in that direction. Please, let's try to stay on topic.

I miss the good old Penhaligon's tallow first soap!

IIRC, SV shaving soap base is made in China. They mill it and add their magic stuff, but it’s Chinese soap ‘noodles’ at the base.

Nothing wrong with that, it’s an interesting model.

 

[RayClem]

IIRC, SV shaving soap base is made in China. They mill it and add their magic stuff, but it’s Chinese soap ‘noodles’ at the base.

Nothing wrong with that, it’s an interesting model.

There are many soap manufacturers, both artisan and traditional, that outsource the production of their products to other facilities. I have SV beta 4.3. The ingredient list is definitely not your typical soap base.

Sodium Cocoate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Rapeseedate, Sodium Sunflowerseedate, Aqua/Water/Eau, Fraxinus Ornus (Manna Ash) Sap Extract, Coco Glucoside, Glyceryl Oleate, Erythritol, Ricinus Communis Oil, Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Copernica Cerifera Cera, Cera Alba, Galactoarabinan, Shorea Stenoptera Seed Butter, Parfum/Fragrance, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Sucrose Cocoate, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Oryza Sativa (Rice) Starch, Xanthan Gum, Glycerin, Stearic Acid, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, Citric Acid, Limonene, Coumarin, Benzyl Benzoate, Linalool, Citronellol, Geraniol.

 

[Steve56]

I agree, SV is not making their own base.

Does that mean that they are not artisan?

 

[njpaddy]

I haven't used a T-3 soap in years and the reason probably boils down to lack of tallow. I still occasionally use some older DRH soaps, which I love, but I don't know if I'll reorder when gone.

 

[CJB3]

I have a hard time considering Haslinger as an artisan. Yes, they did make a change to their sheep milk formulation recently, but many people seem to think that vintage Haslinger Schafmilch is far superior to modern Haslinger. However, they have come out with some new scents in recent years, so the may quality as artisans in that sense.

Many people also think the current Haslinger formulation is just as good as the old—even without the tallow. I am among them.

 

[Abz88]

A lot of the products, but not all, made and sold in the EU have gone vegan. Although BRExit removes UK from the EU, UK products will still be sold in the EU, so EU regulations and preferences will still influence the production.

TOBS, GF Trumper, and T&H have similar formulas based on stearic acid, myristic acid and coconut fatty acid.

DR Harris soap pucks still contain some tallow, but the primary fat is palm oil.

There are some excellent soaps that are made solely with vegan ingredients. Grooming Department proved that with Mohammad's latest version of Nai, but producing such a soap of that caliber without using animal sourced ingredients is expensive.

I am not aware of any EU regulations that would force a switch from tallow? If that was the case, MWF, D.R. Harris, Cyril R Salter, Phoenix and Beau and others would all have had to switch to vegan as well and remove tallow.

 

[RayClem]

Many people also think the current Haslinger formulation is just as good as the old—even without the tallow. I am among them.

Some perfer the old version. You may be one that prefers the new. YMMV