Date A Single Ring Old Type

[Cmaster03]

Hello All,

I just got this nice shaving Old Type on the BST. The seller wasn't quite sure of its date of manufacture and neither am I. One member identified it as 1911 production. It has the usual Pat Nov 04 on the handle.

One confusing thing is it seems to have two numbers, one L prefix and one that could D,B, or E.

I am leaning towards B for the one serial number, which I suppose would be 1911...but it could definitely be a D also.

I guess D or E would be 1917-1918.

Anybody know why it has two numbers stamped?

I was hoping someone who has looked at a lot of these could possibly clear up some of the mystery for me.

Thanks for looking.

 

[luvmysuper]

I read somewhere that razors returned to the Factory with a defect were repaired, issued a new serial and sold again.

I don't know if that is true or not, but it would be one plausible explanation.

 

[john parker]

Believe Ruger does that with firearms, but, if memory serves me correctly (odds are against that!), they change the serial number with a prefix of suffix. Seems like a little expensive for Gillette to do with razors, but those were probably more frugal and craftsmanship days.

I read somewhere that razors returned to the Factory with a defect were repaired, issued a new serial and sold again.

I don't know if that is true or not, but it would be one plausible explanation.

 

[T Rick]

The L series was (according to my reading here, which in this case- as in many, comes from posts by AsylumGuido) a designation of those that were returned for repair. It's unclear to me if they were "re-sold" as stated above, or if they were returned to the original owner, or shop (not sure at what point they may have been flagged for repair, possibly even from the factory QC itself?). Either way, they did skip the L in the dated sequence, and used it as a second number on those that were repaired.

As to the D/B answer, when worn or a light strike, it can be helpful to examine with a Jeweler's Loupe, I use a 10x Loupe. A good camera macro setting taking several shots at slightly different angles etc. can also be helpful.

In this case though, I am nearly certain this is a D, and therefore from 1917 (certain it is not an E). I have 8 Single Rings with dates that range from 1905 (yep, an anomoly or mystery as yet unsolved to my satisfaction, I still think it is possibly a very late 1905 piece, and will until I see a Double Ring with a higher serial number) to 1918. I have examples from 1907, 1909, 1910, 1911, two from 1912 (one Canadian). At some point, they moved the serial number from the barrel of the cap retaining nut to the blade guard (as on yours). The later ones were on the blade guard, and according to my collection, the change seems to have been circa 1911/1912 (my 1911 and all earlier examples I have show the serial number on the cap retaining nut barrel, while my US 1912 and 1918 models have it on the blade guard). My Canadian piece does have the number on the barrel, but it is possible the change occurred part way through 1912, at a different time with other Nations plants, or even possibly they didn't actually follow the US numbering system (though so far indications seem to be they did- the case is consistent with the time period for a 1912).

 

[AsylumGuido]

The L series was (according to my reading here, which in this case- as in many, comes from posts by AsylumGuido) a designation of those that were returned for repair. It's unclear to me if they were "re-sold" as stated above, or if they were returned to the original owner, or shop (not sure at what point they may have been flagged for repair, possibly even from the factory QC itself?). Either way, they did skip the L in the dated sequence, and used it as a second number on those that were repaired.

As to the D/B answer, when worn or a light strike, it can be helpful to examine with a Jeweler's Loupe, I use a 10x Loupe. A good camera macro setting taking several shots at slightly different angles etc. can also be helpful.

In this case though, I am nearly certain this is a D, and therefore from 1917 (certain it is not an E). I have 8 Single Rings with dates that range from 1905 (yep, an anomoly or mystery as yet unsolved to my satisfaction, I still think it is possibly a very late 1905 piece, and will until I see a Double Ring with a higher serial number) to 1918. I have examples from 1907, 1909, 1910, 1911, two from 1912 (one Canadian). At some point, they moved the serial number from the barrel of the cap retaining nut to the blade guard (as on yours). The later ones were on the blade guard, and according to my collection, the change seems to have been circa 1911/1912 (my 1911 and all earlier examples I have show the serial number on the cap retaining nut barrel, while my US 1912 and 1918 models have it on the blade guard). My Canadian piece does have the number on the barrel, but it is possible the change occurred part way through 1912, at a different time with other Nations plants, or even possibly they didn't actually follow the US numbering system (though so far indications seem to be they did- the case is consistent with the time period for a 1912).

Correct. The "L" prefixed serial number signifies a razor that was returned to the plant with some defect that was fixed and placed back into service. I am pretty sure that these came through the retailer, either through pre-sale or post-sale discovery. I would expect the retailer simply gave the customer, post-sale, a replacement and sent the defective razor back to Gillette.

 

[Cmaster03]

Thanks, gents. Great info as always, much appreciated.