Boiling and Bleach

[synapticmisfires]

So I read the razor cleaning thread--in its entirety no less--and some others. It was helpful, but there's a certain amount of inconsistency that I think might be better addressed here.

Boiling: it seemed like a 50-50 split between people who swore by boiling and those who called it dangerous. The first group said that everything else was just window-dressing as long as you boil the metal. Boiling should kill just about anything that can die, and should royally mess-up viruses as well (which, I think do not "die" as such). But there were so many people out there saying that boiling was too risky for the razor.

My question here is what kind of razors can take it? Obviously plastic can not. I think people said that the seal coating on the Gillette Old golden razors can't take it. Beyond that, what? Are TTO/Adjustables too fragile? Is any metal with a melting point much higher than water's boiling point ok? I'm guessing I should keep my mercury razor out of the hot water.

Bleach: Bleach is also a world class disinfectant. My question is: those of you who have tried it what kind of finish was it and how concentrated was the bleach?

Are these both potentially overkill? I suppose, but I have both heat and bleach at my disposal right now. A lot of people say to questions like this, "screw it, just use barbacide". It would be a pain in the butt to acquire and is sold in amounts way bigger than I could use since I don't plan to buy tons of old razors. I have access to 409 too, but again these (bleach and heat) come cheaply and are the gold standard, so I want to know what's stopping me.

Thanks everyone, I'm just really dying to understand this.

 

[Rancor16]

I too have trouble understanding why boiling should be such a no-no. Maybe there are plastic parts in the inner workings of some of the metal razors? Or maybe the heat of the boiling water will cause parts to expand and pop out of place/break. I boiled my SS and it pretty much dissolved just about all the residue that was left on it, it also seemed no worse for wear after the boiling. No idea here.

 

[Bobtrumpet]

Boiling is bad for plastic and gold razors. Plastic, because the plastic parts melt. Gold, because the protective lacquer coating comes off.

Bleach is very bad for silver plated razors (or anything else silver plated or Sterling silver).

Personally I've never used either boiling water or bleach. Lots of hot water, cleaner, and scrubbing has worked well for me (and the 6 razors I have had to clean). There is some issue with being able to get the crud out of TTO and adjustable mechanisms without taking them apart, regardless of cleaning method (boiling, soaking, etc.). Some guys don't worry about it, some guys take them apart and do a thorough cleaning.

 

[hypo_style]

I've found that boiling a nickel-plated razor can lead to water spotting on the finish that I cannot polish out.

I really don't recommend it.

I for one won't be making that mistake again.

 

[Blondie]

Scrubbing bubbles has a disinfectant in it that will kill 99% of what is on a razor. Also, metal being non-porous, germs don't live on them more than about 30 days. Use scrubbing bubbles, and dip them in alcohol if you are that worried.

 

[Patrologia]

I poured boiling water onto the razors with no ill effects. I wouldn't be comfortable putting them into the pot to boil though. The bottom of the pot could get much hotter than the water itself, and if they are in direct contact with that I guess there could be damage.

As for Barbicide, it is sold in pretty large containers for those of us who don't plan to go into business, but if you're willing to get the original instead of the Plus version, and if you're also willing to buy Hydrocide instead of Barbicide, it isn't really very expensive. I think I paid $4.50 for more than I should ever need.

If anyone wants to correct me on the merits of Hydrocide/Barbicide/Barbicide+ then I'm all ears. (Eyes actually, I read this site.)

 

[Greybeard]

There is no metal that will be adversely affected by as low a temperature as boiling water.

Boiling water is not hot enough to damage resin finishes. It can deform some plastics.

Boiling water should not affect new lacquer and paint finishes. If the lacquer or paint is old, it may cause crazing and/or fogging. If the lacquer or paint is already peeling it may accelerate the deterioration of the bond to the metal.

@hypo_style The water spotting is caused by the residue from your water and not the boiling. You could try a 50/50 solution of water and white vinegar to remove them.

Most household bleach is a dilute solution of sodium hypochlorite. This will not affect any razor materials. In fact prolonged exposure to nickel, copper or brass breaks down sodium hypochlorite.

However, if you use household ammonia (sometimes mistaken as bleach) it will rapidly accelerate the oxidation of bare copper, brass and silver.




- Peter

 

[hypo_style]

@hypo_style The water spotting is caused by the residue from your water and not the boiling. You could try a 50/50 solution of water and white vinegar to remove them.

Peter,
Thanks for the tip. The solution I was using at the time was about 80/20 water to white vinegar, but I will certainly try a stronger formulation and see if I can get rid of them.

 

[aodenkou]

Stop and think a moment if you went into a dental office and they pulled an instrument out of a jar of barbacide or wash it off with scrubbing bubbles then procede to use it in your mouth. What would you think? Would you think it was OK because it kills 99% of the bad stuff? Would you want a risk of that 1%? Any dentist would be shut down by OSHA in a heart beat for doing that - same goes for any surgon.

OK - now are you willing to use a sharp instrumet that can and will cut your face with something that has been used by others and is not 100% clean?

My wife is a dentist so I have run every vintage DE through the autoclave before I have used them. I would guess your family dentist would run it through for you when they do their instruments if you asked. No idea what it would do to a SR, but then again I would not use a vintage (used) SR if I had not run it through the autoclave first - even if it did ruin it. Personally, it's not worth the risk - no matter how small.

 

[cooncatbob]

Stop and think a moment if you went into a dental office and they pulled an instrument out of a jar of barbacide or wash it off with scrubbing bubbles then procede to use it in your mouth. What would you think? Would you think it was OK because it kills 99% of the bad stuff? Would you want a risk of that 1%? Any dentist would be shut down by OSHA in a heart beat for doing that - same goes for any surgon.

OK - now are you willing to use a sharp instrumet that can and will cut your face with something that has been used by others and is not 100% clean?

My wife is a dentist so I have run every vintage DE through the autoclave before I have used them. I would guess your family dentist would run it through for you when they do their instruments if you asked. No idea what it would do to a SR, but then again I would not use a vintage (used) SR if I had not run it through the autoclave first - even if it did ruin it. Personally, it's not worth the risk - no matter how small.

The razor is only a holder for the blade which is disposable and sterile.
I for 1 don't stick my razor in my mouth.
I'd be more concerned about the restaurant where you ate, those aren't highly paid technicians running the dishwasher.
Has there ever been a document case from anyone anywhere in the world catching anything from a used razor.
If your concerned I suggest you stick with cartridge razors and electric shavers.

 

[Y2K]

I boiled every used razor that I have gotten. That includes 4 Gillette adjustables (2 fatboys and 2 slims) as well as gillette super speed and merkur futur. I boiled each for at least 15 minutes or more. As long as there are no plastic parts, it should be fine. Boiling does not remove the black paint from the numbers on the adjustables - unless the paint is already loose. I have never tried a "gold" finish razor so I don't know if it affects the finish. As Greybeard pointed out - water spots may form based on your water content but they come off and polish out very easily. I have never tried bleach though. My usual cleaning procedure is: boiling, scrubbing bubbles (or equivalent), and polish. I also used CLR on a couple of razor with great results and zero side effects.

 

[aodenkou]

The razor is only a holder for the blade which is disposable and sterile.
I for 1 don't stick my razor in my mouth.
I'd be more concerned about the restaurant where you ate, those aren't highly paid technicians running the dishwasher.
Has there ever been a document case from anyone anywhere in the world catching anything from a used razor.
If your concerned I suggest you stick with cartridge razors and electric shavers.

A straight razor is not a holder for a blade, and if it's vintage it has potentially been exposed to lots of nasty stuff - TB to be one.

While you don't stick your razor in your mouth you do nick yourself and if you are using a straight razor that's the same blade that others may have used. On the topic of a DE you wipe the outside across an open wound on your face. A surgeon does not put their instruments into the patients mouth (except oral surgeons and dentists) they do cut you with instruments and put instruments into you. Would you let them use instruments on you that have not been properly sterilized?

As to the restaurant I have been in the business and you have every right to be concerned, as well as your local health department that checks them. Dishes do go through a high temp wash and they should be using proper disinfectant soap/rinse. Employees should be tested for Hep C/B, HIV, and TB..... precautions are in place. Perhaps they are not always kept to 100% but that's a problem of enforcement.

I use vintage DE's BUT only after I have run them through an autoclave. I would not use a vintage or used straight that had not been run through the autoclave.

As to your point has there ever been a case? Well who knows? If you picked up something would you necessarily associate it with your razor, or might you be more likely to blame the restaurant you ate at last night? You seem to think there is not a potential problem. That's fine if you wish to think that, I chose to be a bit more cautious and make sure that at least with I first use something it's sterile. By the way do you see barbers shaving the public with straight razors or are they using a shavette? Why have they moved away from a regular straight razor? Do the barbers or the governing bodies have a concern that using a straight razor on a client that is not sterile poses a potential health risk?

Last but not least, your statement "If your concerned I suggest you stick with cartridge razors and electric shavers." I find to be condescending, not at all what I expect in this forum.

 

[cooncatbob]

A straight razor is not a holder for a blade, and if it's vintage it has potentially been exposed to lots of nasty stuff - TB to be one.

While you don't stick your razor in your mouth you do nick yourself and if you are using a straight razor that's the same blade that others may have used. On the topic of a DE you wipe the outside across an open wound on your face. A surgeon does not put their instruments into the patients mouth (except oral surgeons and dentists) they do cut you with instruments and put instruments into you. Would you let them use instruments on you that have not been properly sterilized?

As to the restaurant I have been in the business and you have every right to be concerned, as well as your local health department that checks them. Dishes do go through a high temp wash and they should be using proper disinfectant soap/rinse. Employees should be tested for Hep C/B, HIV, and TB..... precautions are in place. Perhaps they are not always kept to 100% but that's a problem of enforcement.

I use vintage DE's BUT only after I have run them through an autoclave. I would not use a vintage or used straight that had not been run through the autoclave.

As to your point has there ever been a case? Well who knows? If you picked up something would you necessarily associate it with your razor, or might you be more likely to blame the restaurant you ate at last night? You seem to think there is not a potential problem. That's fine if you wish to think that, I chose to be a bit more cautious and make sure that at least with I first use something it's sterile. By the way do you see barbers shaving the public with straight razors or are they using a shavette? Why have they moved away from a regular straight razor? Do the barbers or the governing bodies have a concern that using a straight razor on a client that is not sterile poses a potential health risk?

Last but not least, your statement "If your concerned I suggest you stick with cartridge razors and electric shavers." I find to be condescending, not at all what I expect in this forum.

First of all this is the safety razor section of the forum, there's a separate section for straights as I'm sure your aware.
The viruses that are of concern can't survive in the opened air for a long period of time, so unless a infected user bled all over a razor and then sold it I wouldn't be concern.
You say I'm condescending, well I say your fear mongering.
You have no facts or evidence to back up your claims.
I personally don't care if you guys boil, broil or nuke your razor I'm just tired of the germaphobes spreading misinformation.

 

[Shave A Buck]

Dettol is the best in my opinion. Kills everything and will not melt plastic or harm finishes I believe. Has not done it to anything I own yet.

 

[Blondie]

First of all this is the safety razor section of the forum, there's a separate section for straights as I'm sure your aware.
The viruses that are of concern can't survive in the opened air for a long period of time, so unless a infected user bled all over a razor and then sold it I wouldn't be concern.
You say I'm condescending, well I say your fear mongering.
You have no facts or evidence to back up your claims.
I personally don't care if you guys boil, broil or nuke your razor I'm just tired of the germaphobes spreading misinformation.

You go Cooncatbob!

 

[A_Jameson]

The sanitizing procedures you use has to make you feel comfortable with your razor. Do a little research and come up with a system you like. If it's a razor you really want to use, ignore what little damage bleach or boiling may cause and do it anyway just to feel comfortable with it, most of the time the damage these methods cause is mostly cosmetic.

If you feel comfortable using bleach and boiling, do it.

 

[BroJohn]

Bleach: Bleach is also a world class disinfectant. My question is: those of you who have tried it what kind of finish was it and how concentrated was the bleach?

Don't use bleach on gold razors. I managed to ruin a pretty nice '40s Aristocrat that way.

-- John Gehman

 

[DanInFla]

Would you let them use instruments on you that have not been properly sterilized?

Employees should be tested for Hep C/B, HIV, and TB..... precautions are in place.

to the first part...apples to oranges my friend. even if you went and sterilized it 100%, it will never be that clean even when it is exposed to air. most of the nasty stuff you are concerned with (viruses, bacteria, etc) most are killed by exposed contact to air, and the rest would be killed by any of the simple methods described. Metal is not a porous medium and is easily sterilized, which is why surgical instruments are stainless steel.

to the second part...what? they dont even drug test people in restaurants, let alone testing for diseases.

i think you are just a little too cautious/scared about germs. we arent talking about wearing shoes from the bowling alley here, we are talking at metal tools for shaving. i think my kitchen knife is 10,000 times more likely to get me sick than my DE.

 

[Omnichron]

Don't use bleach on gold razors. I managed to ruin a pretty nice '40s Aristocrat that way.

-- John Gehman

I dip my Merkur in in Listerine Mouthwash for a couple of minutes. It kill just about everything.

 

[luvmysuper]

I'm with CooncatBob, there is little reason to be worried, and even if you were, an alcohol solution alone should be enough to settle your fears, let alone scrubbing the thing with scrubbing bubbles first.
Just because it's an antique razor doesn't mean you have to clean and disinfect it with antique methods.
To each newbie who buys a used razor - Do what you feel you need to do to feel comfortable using the gear personally, but try to avoid the sky is falling scenario.