Boar brush - Optimal loft height for face lathering

[Themaverickmonk]

Hi,

I have couple of boars, including all the hair type Symogues - which range from height of 50mm, 55 mm and the SOC's. I also have to Omega Proraso which I think has a 65+mm height. The Symogues are nifty and fun to use, specially the 830 (55mm- and its advised for bowl lathering), 620 (50mm-advised for face lathering) etc. I find the Omega proraso too floppy because of the loft height. Even the Semogue SOC boar, I think works best for bowl lathering. I was exploring the Zenith collection, and it seems that the 507 Boar has a loft height of 56mm.

Is there a rule of thumb to consider while purchasing boars exclusively for face lathering. Will the Zenith boars at 56mm be good face latherers?


Thanks,

H

 

[Theodore]

Highly dependent on the stiffness of the bristles.

I have two 507 boars in unbleached, and they have no flop whatsoever. I find them fantastic for face lathering, but you have to like a stiff brush (they have nice soft tips though).

On the other hand, my Zenith B21 boar has an effective loft of 41mm, but the hairs are bleached. It's not floppy either, but my 507s are stiffer.

 

[Themaverickmonk]

Highly dependent on the stiffness of the bristles.

I have two 507 boars in unbleached, and they have no flop whatsoever. I find them fantastic for face lathering, but you have to like a stiff brush (they have nice soft tips though).

On the other hand, my Zenith B21 boar has an effective loft of 41mm, but the hairs are bleached. It's not floppy either, but my 507s are stiffer.

So if I understand it correctly, a Zenith unbleached will be much better for face lathering when compared to an unbleached version? I have my eye on the 507, but then I wasnt sure between a bleached vs unbleached version.

 

[NorthernSoul]

Loft should scale with the knot diameter. You have to factor in the stiffness of the bristles, too. A 22mm boar knot should be fine with ~50mm loft. For a 26mm you would want a bit more loft else it will be extremely scrubby. The Omega Jade has a 27mm knot with ~53mm loft, and I wouldn't want it any lower than that. My Zenith 26mm brush has about 56mm loft. It works well for face lathering or bowl lathering.

I'm not sure there actually is an optimum, it's more a matter of taste. Some of my favorite brushes for face lathering are mid-size, 24mm knots with 55mm loft. You can even face lather with long loft brushes by pinching the knot as the Italian barbers do.

 

[Goblin]

I think there's so much natural variation in boar hairs that it's hard to come up with definitive rules. For example, I own a Zenith that is stated as 57mm, but due to the density of the knot I would say it has less splay than a 65mm Omega. Also, I have noticed that with Omega particularly, there can be quite a bit of variation in knot height, and I would take the stated lofts as guidelines rather than definitive statements - I have measured Omega boars that have been out by as much as 4mm from the stated loft.

Generally speaking, I would say 55mm is a sweet spot for face lathering, in as much as it is likely to work for most people, but as per my signature, I enjoy larger boars and have no trouble using them on the face. I think I currently have about 8 boars in rotation, covering Semogue, Zenith and Omega. If I was steering someone towards a boar for use on the face I would probably say the Semogue 1305 hits a nice sweet spot that should work for most people, but the fact is that I enjoy all my boars pretty much equally regardless of size. My family think I am mad, as I have a cupboard of brushes that all look pretty much the same to them!

 

[Alex Jr]

Omega proraso too floppy? You must have a steel face

That’s the king of backbone when it comes to boars.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Depends on the knot - the bristles, knot diameter and density - and how the knot is set.

I recently bought a Semogue Torga C5 with 24 / 50 mm premium boar bristle knot that I am just loving. Nice contrast to my SOC. I like the C5 so much that I bought a C5 2-band finest badger that I will be opening shortly for my birthday.

 

[Theodore]

Omega proraso too floppy? You must have a steel face

That’s the king of backbone when it comes to boars.

I thought similarly until I met the Zenith unbleached 27mm/56mm loft knot. Takes the crown in my book.

 

[Theodore]

So if I understand it correctly, a Zenith unbleached will be much better for face lathering when compared to an unbleached version? I have my eye on the 507, but then I wasnt sure between a bleached vs unbleached version.

Northernsoul is right, it is also about taste. Are you seeking the ultimate stiff boar brush, or just something pretty stiff?

Remember that this is not about the knot being rough or unpleasant, as the soft tips of a good boar knot translate the stiffness into scrub, not scratch. My skin is very sensitive, but 3 minutes face lathering with either the B21 or 507 does not give me brush burn (that said, I also don't mash the brush into my face unnecessarily hard).

If you want to really do some scrubbing, the unbleached zenith 27mm/56mm loft knot is as scrubby and stiff as anything I've ever seen.

 

[Theodore]

My interest in robust boar brushes arose from a couple of sources.

I found this research article on shaving very informative. If you read it, it talks a lot about trapped hairs beneath the skin as a major source of cuts in shaving (basically, you're cutting skin that has grown on top of a hair) and looks into the relative effectiveness of different ways to release those hairs.

Pre-shave exfoliating scrubs are researched (and considered the most effective in this article) and also the use of shaving brushes (found useful, but limited in effect).

What kind of brush and how long it was used, I don't think is mentioned, which lead me to thinking - maybe they were using a brush that didn't have so much exfoliating power? And maybe they weren't using it long enough...

A Gillette advertisement I saw in a magazine in 1927, back when they were making everything the way we like it here at B&B, declares that three minutes is the right amount of time to spend lathering up your face with a brush.

I decided to test a combination of these two ideas - what if I had a good stiff exfoliating boar, and used it on my face for the official three minutes? Would that release all the trapped hairs on my face and neck?

In a word, yes. My shaves have improved dramatically. I almost never get cuts any more, or bumps. On the rare occasion I do get a little bump, the next day's 3-minute boar lathering will either fix it, or nearly fix it (to be fixed the next day).

I can now also shave ATG on the neck - previously impossible for me.

Free your beard before you shave it! A stiff boar brush for 3 minutes is not the only way, but it certainly is one way to do it.

 

[Theodore]

Depends on the knot - the bristles, knot diameter and density - and how the knot is set.

I recently bought a Semogue Torga C5 with 24 / 50 mm premium boar bristle knot that I am just loving. Nice contrast to my SOC. I like the C5 so much that I bought a C5 2-band finest badger that I will be opening shortly for my birthday.

Frank, would you tell me more about the Torga boar, please? I've been thinking about it recently. What's it like to use? Is it scrubby?

 

[Alex Jr]

(that said, I also don't mash the brush into my face unnecessarily hard).

That’s one thing I find weird about my Proraso. If I smash and work with it well splayed it’s soft as a pillow. If I try to use the tips only without any splay, I can feel the tips scratching me, and it’s not enjoyable.

Maybe the tips are not fully broken in yet, I don’t know…

 

[Theodore]

Those tips are where the exfoliating action is - if you use them more, they'll split and feel softer.

It only make sense that the side of a bristle would be more comfortable, but I don't know if that will release hairs as well.

I spent many years thinking of my brush preferences as mostly about comfort, and used soft synthetics that lacked exfoliative power.

Now that I have a new mindset about what a brush is for, I have come to crave the irritating feeling of an unbroken-in boar hair tip.

I still want comfort, but now I want the ultimate comfort of a shave performed on a fully-freed beard.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Frank, would you tell me more about the Torga boar, please? I've been thinking about it recently. What's it like to use? Is it scrubby?

It is scrubby but not scritchy. The premium bristles with a shorter loft seems to be the sweet spot for my face.

 

[Theodore]

Yep, I might need a torga then. Thank you.

 

[Andris83]

If you want to really do some scrubbing, the unbleached zenith 27mm/56mm loft knot is as scrubby and stiff as anything I've ever seen.

I wonder why the unbleached knot is recommended by many over the bleached knot. I went with the bleached one and I am super happy with it. Tons of backbone, soft tips out of the box. It needs a heavy load though, it needs much more product than my 24mm omega or any synth I have got.

 

[Theodore]

I wonder why the unbleached knot is recommended by many over the bleached knot.

It's the backbone. Unbleached knots are just stiffer than bleached.

I have most of the Omega pro boars, and for stiffness and bleached-ness, I put them in between the Zenith bleached and unbleached.

 

[Andris83]

I only have these 2 boars, but the Zenith 27mm bleached is in its own league in terms of backbone already. I can't imaging needing more the omega 10066 is floppy compared to it. (note: it isn't floppy really, just in this comparison)

 

[Theodore]

To be honest, I was a little shocked the first time I used the unbleached version. But now I am hooked.

 

[Alex Jr]

Those tips are where the exfoliating action is - if you use them more, they'll split and feel softer.

It only make sense that the side of a bristle would be more comfortable, but I don't know if that will release hairs as well.

I spent many years thinking of my brush preferences as mostly about comfort, and used soft synthetics that lacked exfoliative power.

Now that I have a new mindset about what a brush is for, I have come to crave the irritating feeling of an unbroken-in boar hair tip.

I still want comfort, but now I want the ultimate comfort of a shave performed on a fully-freed beard.

I like some exfoliation and scrub, but not scritchy. I actually had some major brush irritation in the past when breaking in new stiff boars. That's why I feel that Proraso hasn't got to a point of full scrubbiness without that poking feel, at least yet. I hope it gets there.

I have a 13 year old dyed omega that is soft as a pillow with plenty backbone and scrub.