bevels, hht, and crox questions

[shavingnoobie]

Hey again.

I'm trying to hone a razor on a coticule doing I'm not sure if I'm setting the bevel correctly. Essentially, I reset the bevel on a glass and then hone until the razor cuts hair, as per numerous videos. However, I'm not sure what cutting hair means, though. I mean, I can cut hair if I put the razor against the skin and drag it with a high angle with the grain, but it doesn't cut if I try to cut it in mid section in either direction. Does that count as a set bevel?

Another question: just for fun, I decided to continue on with the unicot method after the above mentioned bevel attempt. After honing on water, I ended with an edge that did not pass any HHT test. However, after I stropped it on CrOx, I got what seems to be HHT2 or 3. I shaved with it and although it cut hair, it wasn't very smooth. I got a bit of a burn on a neck. Is using CrOx cheating here? Is it normal not to have HHT and then after CrOx suddenly start popping hair?

I've been trying to set a good bevel for a few days now to no avail (I think). Would it be easier to just get a $30 6" 1200 DMT, wear it out a bit with a chisel, and then try to set a bevel? At least then I'd have an idea of what a proper bevel feels like and then try to replicate it with the coticule.

Thanks for any help.

 

[buca3152]

The 1200 dmt can certainly set a bevel. Hht are another matter as some use these and some dont. Good luck.

 

[Fuzzy Chops]

Hey again.

I'm trying to hone a razor on a coticule doing I'm not sure if I'm setting the bevel correctly. Essentially, I reset the bevel on a glass and then hone until the razor cuts hair, as per numerous videos. However, I'm not sure what cutting hair means, though. I mean, I can cut hair if I put the razor against the skin and drag it with a high angle with the grain, but it doesn't cut if I try to cut it in mid section in either direction. Does that count as a set bevel?

Another question: just for fun, I decided to continue on with the unicot method after the above mentioned bevel attempt. After honing on water, I ended with an edge that did not pass any HHT test. However, after I stropped it on CrOx, I got what seems to be HHT2 or 3. I shaved with it and although it cut hair, it wasn't very smooth. I got a bit of a burn on a neck. Is using CrOx cheating here? Is it normal not to have HHT and then after CrOx suddenly start popping hair?

I've been trying to set a good bevel for a few days now to no avail (I think). Would it be easier to just get a $30 6" 1200 DMT, wear it out a bit with a chisel, and then try to set a bevel? At least then I'd have an idea of what a proper bevel feels like and then try to replicate it with the coticule.

Thanks for any help.

DMT 1200 is ideal for bevel setting before honing on a Coticule. Inexpensive, works well, doesn't require lapping. If you are unsure that the bevel is set, do a marker test also. What you want to look for is the ability of the edge to catch the hair. If you pass the razor through your arm hair, 1/"4 from the skin, you should feel the edge grabbing some hairs. From there, go to the Coticule, with no more than a skim milk slurry and hone.
As to the CrOx, it cannot make a dull edge sharp, only add keenness to an already keen edge. I would look for HHT 2-3 from the Coticule and HHT 3-4 after stropping on linen and leather. The CrOx should then take the edge to a solid HHT4.
If you cannot get HHT 2 from the Coticule, I would suggest doing a Unicot procedure.

 

[Slash McCoy]

If you have a heavy piece of glass at least 12" long and 3" wide, you can make a bevel setting hone. A 4" x 12" polished marble bullnose edge tile from Home Depot ($5) works, too. Get some Loctite or 3M spray adhesive and some wet/dry sandpaper. 800 or 1k grit. Not half sheets. If HD only has half sheets, go to AutoZone or order from www.supergrit.com. Anyway fold and tear the sandpaper into thirds, lengthwise. Lightly spray the back of the sandpaper and carefully apply it to your plate. Set your bevel on that. Nice, cheap way to set a bevel on a single razor. Plus you have a fairly wide, very long honing surface that does not need lapping.

If you are having trouble setting a bevel, here is a foolproof method.

With moderate pressure, hone only one side of the razor, in sets of 50 half-laps. At the end of each set, feel the edge. If you run your finger off the edge as if driving off a cliff, you will eventually feel a burr. This is a catch or hook of displaced steel. You want it to run the length of the blade. It may be very subtle at first and hard to detect but you will notice the difference when you feel one side, then the other. When you have raised a full length burr, hone the second side the same number of half laps as the first side. Now, the burr should switch sides, too. If not, keep going until it does. Then equalize the half laps. Now you have raised a burr the full length of the edge, on each side in turn. Next you remove the burr by using regular alternating laps with light pressure. Typically this will take about 40 laps but YMMV. When done, strop the blade and then give it another dozen laps on the hone. Test it. It should shave arm hair easily along the whole edge. The bevel is now set, and you should never have to do this again with this razor, ever. The burr technique works with any bevel setting stone or lapping film and leaves no question that the bevel is set.

A DMT will work just fine, though. I just prefer a wider and longer honing surface. A King 1k or a Norton 1k would work, or a Chosera 1k (preferred) but any of these stones should be lapped before use. The polished marble tile or glass plate will already be flat. And it is cheap. So if this might be the only razor you hone, don't spend money on a rock that you will only use once.

 

[Gamma]

Setting bevels on Cotis can be done - but it's usually time consuming.
If the set-bevel edge shaves arm hair easily across the entire length - you're either close to done or done.
It's a subective test that can't be gauged perfectly due to unseen variables.

If you can't judge the bevel with using the Coti, then you won't be able to judge it when using a DMT.
The DMT will go faster - but it won't necessarily make a 'better' bevel or allow you to read it better.
Plus - you'll probably wind up with a good number of errant scratches in the bevel from using a new plate. Just running a chisel over it for a bit isn't going to 'break it in' all that well. It takes time. Using it before it's broken in can cause more grief than you're tying to relieve.

Crox can cause irritation. It can also bump up the sharpness a bit and possibly smooth out the roughness too. It all depends on how it's used. It's not a magic cure. Using it has to be learned just like the rest of the game.

 

[gary haywood]

Setting bevels on Cotis can be done - but it's usually time consuming.
If the set-bevel edge shaves arm hair easily across the entire length - you're either close to done or done.
It's a subective test that can't be gauged perfectly due to unseen variables.

If you can't judge the bevel with using the Coti, then you won't be able to judge it when using a DMT.
The DMT will go faster - but it won't necessarily make a 'better' bevel or allow you to read it better.
Plus - you'll probably wind up with a good number of errant scratches in the bevel from using a new plate. Just running a chisel over it for a bit isn't going to 'break it in' all that well. It takes time. Using it before it's broken in can cause more grief than you're tying to relieve.

Crox can cause irritation. It can also bump up the sharpness a bit and possibly smooth out the roughness too. It all depends on how it's used. It's not a magic cure. Using it has to be learned just like the rest of the game.

spot on gamma



gary

 

[Neurotopia]

Yup. I hate CrOx. I love AlumOx. Iron Oxide works well too for me. It's all in personal pref, and how you employ it. I can get away with 3 passes on CrOx/balsa, but any more than that gives me terrible razor burn.

I broke in my DMT plates by lapping a CNat. You have to be very careful doing this with anything over 325, running water and cleaning off the plate regularly is key. If things start to gum up at all, you risk stripping the diamonds.

 

[Disburden]

You can use chromium on a hanging strop or the inside of a cereal box instead of balsa.
Same goes with any paste.
I prefer Pete S.'s red iron paste in carboard.

 

[shavingnoobie]

Sigh. I just realized something obvious: it matters which end of the tip you hold the hair when doing HHT! Was just pulling random hair off a brush trying to perform the HHT and the result was inconsistent. Sometimes it popped hair all the time and other times it wouldn't pop anything at all. I couldn't figure out what it was until I remembered reading on Bart's page that you gotta hold it by the end of the tip. Ah, so much grief could've been avoided these past few days! When the hair wouldn't pop off the stone, I thought I failed but it could've been me doing the test wrongly!

Also, thanks for the help everyone. I'm gonna stick it out with only the coticule and try to learn it well enough to be independent of pastes and bevel setters.

 

[Gamma]

Nice